Roobet Casino - Τα κέρδη του παίκτη κατασχέθηκαν λόγω υποτιθέμενης εξαπάτησης.

My account has been closed and I am accused of cheating with access to round results after winning 3.6 million USD(played with in BTC) on roobet.com's house game 'Crash'.

I was told I am being investigated for cheating and needed to give level 4 verification to get withdrawal as well. 4 days went by and I arrive to find my account can no longer be logged into, and an email from Roobet stating:

"it's our final conclusion that you have taken advantage of a vulnerability which exposed access to round results. We are aware of the connection, and are required to inform you that we are in the process of pursuing remedy for damages incurred."

It is bad enough they won't pay me, but they are also stating they will pursue me for damages? For simply playing and winning at a game???

I cannot believe it. I actually thought I must be in a nightmare, but this is real - they accuse me of cheating on a SHA256 secured, cryptographically coded game. I thought for sure there would be no problem, and it was just semantics of verifying/AML/KYC but they are actually not paying and accusing of cheating! On Crash!! It makes my head spin.

If you go to https://roobet.com/fair and look at 'Crash', they explain how it works and why it is 'fair'. I say 'fair' because as it turns out if you win lots of money then suddenly they claim 'unfair'. Fair when you lose money though apparently.

To quote from that Crash section:

"This game uses two ingredients:

Server Seed - provided by us

Client Seed - the hash from a crypto block (like Bitcoin or Ethereum)

We take a Server Seed and hash it (SHA256), creating a new Server Seed. Then we take that Server Seed and hash that too. We repeat this process until we have 2 million hashes -- 2 million server seeds. The very first game uses the 2 millionth server seed (in the codesandbox below), and each game after that works backwards down the list of server seeds. Second game uses the 1,999,999th hash and so on and so forth.

The Client Seed is a public key that we agree to using before we know what it is. We commit to the hash of a crypto block before that block is mined, and we create all the server seed hashes before committing to this block. This ensures that we could not control the outcome of each game. The current Client Seed is in the codes and box below.

To verify this, you can input the Server Seed to your game in the code below, and you should see the server seeds and game results for the previous 100 games."

They are claiming I cheated on this here game. They stand strong by their code until you win a lot then suddenly their 'fair code' isn't fair. As far as I'm aware and anyone here correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not a genius, but to know the results of this game would either require me to be able to crack SHA256 or crack Bitcoin itself. Neither of those are possible.

Its one thing to claim cheating or exploits on live tables and other stuff that can have casino employees involved or something but denying my win on such a transparent game is theft plain and simple.

I have been a registered user and gambled on the site occasionally for at least a couple years. This is life changing money and words cannot describe how disappointed and angry it makes me to be denied my legit winnings.

Hello JesseJuliano,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint and I'm really sorry to hear about your issue with Roobet Casino. Please allow me to ask you a few more question before we would move forward.

Could you please advise if your account is already verified and if yes, since when exactly? When was the last time you spoke to the casino and what was it about? Did they ever specify how exactly did you cheated the game? Is your account currently still active and do you have any real money balance there left?

Looking forward to your answer.

Regards,

Nick

Hello Nick,

Thank you for helping with this stressful situation.

To answer your questions:

1: It was level 2 verified, which never had problems withdrawing. I have been level 2 for some time(years I believe?) I am not entirely sure. They wanted level 3 and 4, which was address and proof of funds - after winning. I provided this.

2: Last communication was asking for an update on my pending verification/investigation. They said 'soon'. That was 24hours or so ago. Today was when I got the email I quoted above, stating my account has been locked and bets voided.

3: They have not specified on the cheating accusation beyond what you see in the email. Simply that I somehow had access to round results.

4: I cannot login to the account. They have confirmed in the same email that it is locked and my bets voided.

5: Yes there is 3.26 million USD in the account.(exact amount $3,260,251.03 USD).

Oh they did kind of expand on the cheating accusation in a twitter post.

"On August 24th, we identified a vulnerability that allowed certain users to access Crash seeds that would enable them to predict crashpoints and exploit the game. We've fixed the issue."

So they believe I had access to the seeds I guess. They then go on to say the following:

"Congrats to the exploiters, but now it's your turn - we're throwing a 48h Astro Roo starting NOW. Put up your longest Crash rides, and the top rider will receive a piece of the Crash wagers until they're beaten!"

Yeah congrats(except they are telling me they are taking legal action? nice way to congratulate someone). They even use this theft as opportunity to market themselves and make some money with a promotion.

Hello JesseJuliano,

Would it be possible to forward your game/betting history from the time you played Crash, preferably the whole history? Please forward it to nikolas.b@casino.guru.

Dear Nick,

We have sent you an e-mail with additional information on this case. Please let us know if you have received the same.

Best,

Roobet

I do not have the history convenient to me at this time although I took a video of them if roobet cannot provide this information in a more friendly to examine format(text). My account is currently locked so I can't access the betting history.

From top of my head I wagered around 19-20 million USD on my account. Roobet never had a problem when I wagered 10-19k at a time and lost those bets. But when I managed to win and get to the sum mentioned, suddenly it's accusations of cheating with no explanation.

Lose? Roobet keeps it. Win? Roobet keeps it and says you cheated.

Let me guess roobet.. When I lost my money, it was all fair and legit and you stand by your game. But my winning bets are cheating, right?

I bet on every single round of crash for many hours on end to achieve this win. Missing just a handful of rounds. I don't see how they can genuinely think I cheated.

Thank you JesseJuliano and Roobet for all the information provided so far. I will be now forwarding the complaint to my colleague Matej (matej@casino.guru) who will be handling the case from now on.

Best regards,

Nick

Hello JesseJuliano,

I am sorry to hear about your troubles.

Let's start from the beginning.

Could you please remember when you created the account?

Do you have a bet history or at least can you remember how much you deposited during the time you had an account and approximately the dates when you did it?

In the last session when you won, you stated that you participated in every single round except for a several rounds.

Could you describe how you managed to win such an amazing amount of money? What was your starting capital and approximately how big was your success rate?

Thanks

Hello Matej,

Thank you for helping here.

Looking at emails I have had the account since the January 2021 and in that time a total deposit amount of around 10k If I had to make a rough estimate from memory, I doubt more than that? Every few months sometimes longer sometimes less, I would gamble and make a small deposit of a few hundred(or less) usually.

My bet history over those 2 or so years is various games including crash. I can't really provide exact specifics on that its lengthy, I played lots often just tiny amounts sometimes bigger amounts. I've always just enjoyed the gambling though so often smaller amounts like 20c slots or 1$ blackjack or crash or whatever. Never had amazing luck though until this year. My last deposit several months ago I won a good amount on roobet playing crash, my first withdrawal I think from roobet(I think? first big one anyway. Maybe I've withdrawn a few hundred once?), normally I lose it all. I go big or go home.

As for last session. I only missed a handful in this session, when I would be distracted drinking coffee or something but basically every round which I feel is significant, I didn't pick and choose specific rounds(I would still get hit by the 0.00x instant wipe outs) or bet in a way(low then high) that would insinuate I knew any outcome.

I deposited several thousand for the session maybe $5000 or so? (Larger than normal deposit as I had won with roobet several months ago so it was redepositing from that win) I had a strong feeling of good luck come to me that day, and started to play crash - one of my favourite games. I would bet on the round and pull out early if I feel it won't be good(try to pull out less than 1.10x). Most of my bets would be bets are where I have pulled out of crash at 1.03x - 1.10x. Many times I am wrong, the game goes high. I stay in and go for around 2.00x if I feel it will go there. I often win many hands in a row because crash doesn't go lower than 1.10x very often. But I do still lose many times - quite large bets which I worked up from my several thousand deposit into 19k bets(the majority of my bets were 19k once I got to 100k or so.).

I just rode the wave of luck and kept pulling out early when I felt it wouldn't hit big. My biggest win was 5.00x, but most bigger wins were in the 2.00x area.

Overall I'd say my success rate was pretty good. Better than average, hence the resulting winnings I guess. Things escalated quite quickly, I doubled my bets as I won and then stuck to 19k(20k I think is maximum but 19 is a special number to me).

I had a bunch of luck come my way with a lot of willingness to risk big bets.

Again I really appreciate your help and I hope this can be resolved soon. There has been a big mistake and its a very frustrating position for me!

Hello JesseJuliano,

It seems that your balance has been increasing gradually, which is highly unlikely. According to my calculations, it would require around 180 winning rounds for this to happen. Therefore, I can understand why the casino might be suspicious.

Is there any possibility that you have your betting history or any other evidence to support your winnings?

Typically, winning such a large amount of money occurs from hitting a major jackpot rather than through gradual increments. Therefore, I would like to review your betting history for further verification.

Thank you.

Hello MateJ,

Yes it was a gradual increase over a long and many hour session. It was not 180 wins in a row or anything crazy, it was many wins and losses but overall more wins than losses hence the ending balance. I was 'on a roll' as people say.

If roobet could provide the bet history that would be ideal, my video sd cards are in storage and not particularly easy to access and would require me to do a lot of manual work to write it all out frame by frame. If we could avoid that and any doubt my own submission could create that would be great.

I do understand that this kind of win may not be common, but I don't see the casino giving back peoples money when you lose 10 hands of blackjack in a row or some other 'statistical anomaly' that is hard to believe could be real bad luck. It seems very unfair that because I was the one who won a lot of money instead of the casino, suddenly the game they claim is fair, is no longer fair.

I want to know what exactly is being claimed here. I won a bunch on a game... they say I cheated/exploited it. I did not. The game is very well known and has been played by many. There are even videos on youtube of people breaking down the code and showing how neither the house nor the player could have any advantage and its all 'built in' with code that cannot be 'beaten' or altered. Roobet has stood by this game for years and claimed its 'provably fair'. To me that should settle any arguments in the first place otherwise are they going to refund everyone that has played it? Was it not 'provably fair' before? Anyway like I say I'm happy for roobet to provide you with the betting history.

Thank you for your help.

Hello JesseJuliano,

I acknowledge your frustration regarding the situation. I have also received the email from the casino explaining the matter.

I want to inform you that when a significant amount of money is at stake and the casino suspects any form of cheating by the player, it is standard procedure for the casino to conduct a thorough investigation. While this investigation is common, it should not exceed a duration of 3 months. Within this timeframe, the casino should be able to gather sufficient evidence, which will enable us to make a decision.

I hope this arrangement is agreeable to both parties.

Thank you.

I've been trying to think of a reply for the last few days and I don't really know what to say. 3 months is excessive and I don't think this is fair at all.

What have they emailed you exactly? They have not updated me at all. Last thing they said to me is what I posted here, that my account was locked and bets voided.

Almost every time someone wins a large sum of money, the casino thoroughly checks everything before processing the payment. The casino has informed me that they suspect you of cheating and are currently gathering evidence. It does take time to verify everything, and although I understand your frustration, there is nothing we can do about it. I have seen this situation occur many times, so it is not out of the ordinary. All you need to do is be patient and wait.

Thanks Matej, I appreciate the response. I guess what annoys me is that I'm accused of cheating, not simply that they are 'investigating' my win.

Roobet - what is my winnings as opposed to your reputation being that you don't pay out big wins, that you don't stand by your own provably fair games and so on? It isn't hard to do the math. I won, it's time to pay. I documented everything - while inconvenient for me to put together, don't give me more than 3 million reasons motivate me to produce it for the public to see a transparent theft of a players win.

The only cheating going on is the interest I'd make on this money going to roobet every day which I think is the real reason to stall such a payout. I can't blame them if they are allowed to do it but the way this has all been handled by them feels wrong in every way. Like I said Matej I appreciate the response and that your hands are tied.

Hello JesseJuliano,

I understand your concerns, but I believe it would be more beneficial if the casino addresses the issue directly instead of providing general responses. I can empathize with how you are feeling, however, time will ultimately reveal the truth.

I strongly recommend that you contact the casino regulator directly regarding this matter. It may expedite the process as the regulator's investigation can take up to three months these days.

I have received an email from the casino, and I am certain that the assistance of the regulator will be necessary in this case. If you are unsure of how to proceed, I am more than willing to assist you with that.

Hello Matej,

Thanks for the response. Yes can you please let me know what I need to do regarding the regulator. And it sounds like roobet are stating outright they will not pay in the email that sent you? What causes such confidence in needing a regulator if that isn't the case?

Appreciate the help.

Dear JesseJuliano,

I apologize for the delay in my response.

You can find all the necessary information on how to submit a complaint to the regulator here:

https://casino.guru/licensing-authorities/curacao-license

If you choose to proceed, please inform me, and we will resolve this complaint as pending a decision from the regulator.

Dear JesseJuliano,

We are extending the timer by 7 days. Please, be aware that in case you fail to respond in the given time frame or don’t require any further assistance, we will reject the complaint.

Hello,

I am wanting to get confirmation that roobet has refused to cooperate here?

No, I am waiting for your confirmation that you have submitted your complaint to the regulator.

Roobet is communicating with us and has sent me the statement. However, at this point, there is nothing we can do, as I explained earlier.

The regulators state they will not help if the casino has not refused to pay or cooperate and I need to 'reach out' to them first. I'm trying to get confirmation that roobet are in fact saying they will not pay, as that is what the regulators seem to require? Currently I have just been told it is being investigated by you and roobet.

Roobet: are you refusing to pay, do I need to take this to your regulator?

Dear Roobet Casino,

Could you please provide an update on the status of this complaint? Are you still investigating the issue, and if so, could you please give us a deadline for when the investigation will be completed?

If you believe that JesseJuliano was cheating and you have evidence to support this, could you please confirm that you are not willing to pay him so that he can submit the complaint to the regulator?

After receiving an email from the casino and considering the complexity of the case, I believe it would be best to involve the regulator as soon as possible in this matter.

We would like to ask the casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’ which may negatively affect its rating.

Dear Casino Guru and Jesse Juliano,

Roobet hereby confirm that we have concluded our investigation and confirmed that there was an exploit of our game. This evidence has already been shared with Casino Guru.

Consequently, we have void all of Mr. Juliano bets in accordance with the clause 14 of our terms of service which states that "we will not be liable in the event You try to or obtain an advantage from any errors in respect of bets or wagers on the Website if You were deliberately acting in bad-faith."

Best,

Roobet

Dear JesseJuliano,

The casino representative has confirmed that you may now submit your complaint to the regulator.

Once you do, please update this complaint and we will mark it as "waiting for regulator's decision."

Thank you.

Dear JesseJuliano,

We are extending the timer by 7 days. Please, be aware that in case you fail to respond in the given time frame or don’t require any further assistance, we will reject the complaint.

The regulator has not responded. I believe the next step is contacting the minister of finance of Curaçao? Can you Matej please confirm the contact details of roobets licensor.

Dear JesseJuliano,

Unfortunately, these days the regulator is taking up to three months, and sometimes even longer, to respond.

The Roobet Casino holds an Antillephone license, which you can verify by clicking on their logo in the footer of the casino's website.

Here are the contact details:

https://casino.guru/licensing-authorities/curacao-license-3

JesseJuliano, can you please confirm if you have already submitted your complaint to the regulator? Ideally, you can forward me your message at: matej@casino.guru so I can verify if the message was formally correct.

Hello Matej,

I have submitted a complaint to the regulator.

Thank you for confirming.

I am now marking this complaint as unresolved with the status: waiting for the regulator's decision

Please reopen the case once you receive the final response from the regulator.

Dear JesseJuliano,
We hope this finds you well. We would like to ask you to provide an update regarding this case, which was previously marked as "Waiting for Regulator" on our website. Your complaint has now been automatically reopened, and we are eager to know if there have been any recent developments or resolutions since our last communication.
If the ADR or the Licensing Authority has resolved things in your favor, please update the thread and send over the official statement to my email. Alternatively, if the ruling favored the casino, your insights are just as crucial.
We understand that some time has passed, but updating your complaint will allow us to take appropriate action, such as issuing black points to the casino in case the ruling is in your favor or warning other players and users about instances where the authority supports the operator.
We truly appreciate your cooperation, and your response would be of great assistance to us.
Thank you in advance for your reply.

Hey Matej. I wish I could say I'm surprised, but I have not received a single communication from the regulator. What do you think suggest I do?

Regards

Dear JesseJuliano,

Unfortunately, in this situation, if you want to rely on the regulator, all we can do is wait longer, I'm afraid.

You could also consider hiring a lawyer and trying to take your case to court, but I can't assist you with that.

Dear JesseJuliano,

We are extending the timer by 7 days. Please, be aware that in case you fail to respond in the given time frame or don’t require any further assistance, we will reject the complaint.

Yes it seems strange to me that regulators wouldn't respond in such an amount of time, almost like they are actually working for the casino..

I will attempt to make contact again with them, otherwise as you mention, get a lawyer involved.

Thank you again Matej

Dear JesseJuliano,

This year, the Curacao government is implementing changes to the gambling regulations, which may lead to some delays.

I must point out that, according to the game logs, the gameplay in question appears highly suspicious. I comprehend the casino's skepticism regarding the legitimacy of your results, suspecting possible manipulation or errors. Given the significant amount at stake, it would be advisable to await the regulator's decision. I trust you concur with this course of action, and I can once more mark this case as 'waiting for regulator's decision.'

Dear JesseJuliano,

We are extending the timer by 7 days. Please, be aware that in case you fail to respond in the given time frame or don’t require any further assistance, we will reject the complaint.

Thanks I appreciate your help.

You can put it back to waiting for the regulators response.

I am closing this complaint again with the status waiting for the regulator's decision however it is important to note that based on the game logs we believe that casino acted correctly in this case.

Dear JesseJuliano,
We hope this finds you well. We would like to ask you to provide an update regarding this case, which was previously marked as "Waiting for Regulator" on our website. Your complaint has now been automatically reopened, and we are eager to know if there have been any recent developments or resolutions since our last communication.
If the ADR or the Licensing Authority has resolved things in your favor, please update the thread and send over the official statement to my email. Alternatively, if the ruling favored the casino, your insights are just as crucial.
We understand that some time has passed, but updating your complaint will allow us to take appropriate action, such as issuing black points to the casino in case the ruling is in your favor or warning other players and users about instances where the authority supports the operator.
We truly appreciate your cooperation, and your response would be of great assistance to us.
Thank you in advance for your reply.

Hey Matej, unfortunately still no response.

Due to Curacao's reform of their sublicensing authorities, I will once again close this case, awaiting the regulator's decision.

I hope we receive a response soon.

Dear JesseJuliano,
We hope this finds you well. We would like to ask you to provide an update regarding this case, which was previously marked as "Waiting for Regulator" on our website. Your complaint has now been automatically reopened, and we are eager to know if there have been any recent developments or resolutions since our last communication.
If the ADR or the Licensing Authority has resolved things in your favor, please update the thread and send over the official statement to my email. Alternatively, if the ruling favored the casino, your insights are just as crucial.
We understand that some time has passed, but updating your complaint will allow us to take appropriate action, such as issuing black points to the casino in case the ruling is in your favor or warning other players and users about instances where the authority supports the operator.
We truly appreciate your cooperation, and your response would be of great assistance to us.
Thank you in advance for your reply.

Unfortunately, the player has not responded to our messages and questions. Consequently, we are unable to investigate further and have no choice but to reject this complaint. It is important to note that based on the game logs we believe that casino acted correctly in this case.

The player can reopen this complaint at any time.