Craze Play Casino - Τα κέρδη μπόνους παίκτη ακυρώθηκαν.

Again a casino that doesn't want to pay out my winnings because I allegedly made too high a stake in the ROULETTE. I'm really slowly losing faith in justice!

I deposited 50EUR and claimed a 200% bonus. I won in a relatively short time and wanted to have the profit of 1,100 EUR paid out to me. Of course again without success! I find it really sad that casinos are accusing players of cheating while playing. Reputable casinos block excessive stakes during the bonus game so that there is no such misunderstanding, dubious ones speculate that the players do not read the fine print and then take away their winnings.

Unfortunately it is not possible to download a complete game history in the casino, but my maximum stakes were 2.50 EUR. It could also be that I had already reached the wagering after this mission.

I would be very happy if you could get in touch with the casino directly and clarify the situation so that I can still get my winnings.

Many Thanks!

This is the last email from the casino:

Hi there

Please note that your withdrawal request was rejected for violating our terms and conditions, as you placed a larger stake than allowed while the active bonus was being rolled over

Please see the attachment or visit https://www.crazeplay.com/bonus-terms

As a result, your winnings have been voided and the original deposit has been returned to your account

With best regards

"CrazePlay Cashier

cashier@hd.crazeplay.com

www.crazeplay.com "

Wieder mal ein Casino was mir nicht meinen Gewinn auszahlen möchte, weil ich angeblich einen zu Hohen Einsatz im ROULETTE gemacht habe. So langsam verliere ich wirklich den Glauben an Gerechtigkeit!

Ich habe 50EUR eingezahlt und einen 200% Bonus in Anspruch genommen. Ich habe in relativ kurzer Zeit gewonnen und wollte mir den Gewinn in Höhe von 1.100 EUR auszahlen lassen. Natürlich wieder ohne Erfolg! Ich finde es wirklich traurig, dass die Casinos den Spielern Betrug unterstellen beim Spielen. Seriöse Casinos sperren zu Hohe Einsätze während des Bonusspiels, damit es nicht zu solchen Missverständnissen kommt, unseriöse spekulieren darauf, dass die Spieler nicht das Kleingedruckte lesen und nehmen dann deren Gewinne weg.

Leider ist es nicht möglich einen kompletten Spielverlauf im Casino runterzuladen, aber meine maximalen Einsätze beliefen sich auf 2,50 EUR. Es kann auch sein, dass ich das Wagering eventuell schon nach diesem besagten Einsatz erreicht hatte.

Ich würde mich sehr freuen, wenn Sie direkt mit dem Casino in Kontakt treten könnten und die Situation aufklären könnten, damit ich meinen Gewinn noch bekomme.

Vielen Dank!

Das ist die letzte Email des Casinos:

Hallo

Bitte beachten Sie, dass Ihr Auszahlungsantrag aufgrund eines Verstoßes gegen unsere Geschäftsbedingungen abgelehnt wurde, da Sie während des Rollover des aktiven Bonus einen größeren Einsatz als erlaubt getätigt haben

Bitte sehen Sie sich den Anhang an oder besuchen Sie https://www.crazeplay.com/bonus-terms

Daher wurden Ihre Gewinne für ungültig erklärt und die ursprüngliche Einzahlung zurück auf Ihr Konto überwiesen

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

"CrazePlay Kassierer

cashier@hd.crazeplay.com

www.crazeplay.com"

Dear Roger,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint and forwarding the relevant screenshot. I’m sorry to hear about the issue and understand your frustration. I carefully checked the Bonus Terms on the website, and this is what I found https://www.crazeplay.com/bonus-terms:

„While a bonus is active/rollover requirements have not been met yet, a maximum bet per hand/spin of 4.00€ or equivalent in another currency applies. Should you place bets over 4.00€ while a bonus is active/rollover requirements have not been met, we reserve the right to void the bonus and any winnings derived from the bonus. Match Bonus offers are not applicable whilst a pending withdrawal is being processed."

We would like to see casinos implementing systems that would prevent players from placing higher than allowed bets, but, unfortunately, this is not a standard practice yet. You were not stopped or blocked when you decided to increase your bet, and, as a result, you breached the maximum bet rule.

If you are aware of placing higher bets then the allowed ones, sadly, there is not much we can do to support your case at this time. I would strongly recommend reading all the T&Cs carefully before you start playing to avoid any misunderstandings in the future. Casinos try to design their bonuses to be as attractive as possible, but the rules must always be followed.

Please do not hesitate to contact me you feel that you’ve been accused mistakenly, otherwise, I will be forced to reject your complaint. Thank you for your understanding.

Best regards,

Petronela

Hello Petronela,

Of course, I feel absolutely falsely accused. I wagered a maximum of EUR 2.50 on all casino slots. I didn't know about this 30% rule until a few days ago. Only when I came across your portal did I find out about the rule. Which new player reads all casino terms and conditions carefully before playing? I had no ill intent and knew absolutely nothing about this rule . In addition, you were NOT advised of this rule in the live casino or the slots !!! Bets of any amount were possible. After the alleged violation, I never bet more than 2.5 euros !!! Unfortunately, you don't get a complete game history in the casino where I can prove it to you.

Please contact Casino CrazePlay to find a compromise! I will continue to pay close attention to every bonus condition in the future!

Hallo Petronela,

Natürlich fühle ich mich absolut fälschlicherweise beschuldigt. Ich habe bei allen Casino Slots maximal 2,50 Euro gesetzt. Ich wusste bis vor ein paar Tagen nichts von dieser 30% Regelung. Erst als ich auf Ihr Portal gestoßen bin habe ich von der Regel erfahren. Welcher neue Spieler liest schon alle AGBs der Casinos genau durch, bevor er spielt. Ich hatte keine böse Absicht und wusste absolut nichts von dieser Regel. Außerdem wurde man NICHT im Live Casino oder bei den Slots auf diese Regelung hingewiesen!!! Es waren Einsätze in jeder Höhe möglich. Ich habe nach dem angeblichen Verstoß nie mehr als 2,5 Euro gesetzt!!! Leider bekommt man im Casino auch keinen vollständigen Spielverlauf, wo ich Ihnen das beweisen könnte.

Bitte setzen Sie sich mi dem Casino CrazePlay in Verbindung, um einen Kompromiss zu finden! Ich werde auch in Zukunft jede Bonusbedingung genau beachten!

So I allegedly bet more than 4 euros on the ROULETTE, NOT on the slots!

What I also found very strange is that after several inquiries about where my payout finally stayed, the casino claimed that I had allegedly played forbidden games like Aztec Gold and that they would now investigate. After I asked again, they came to the ROULETTE with the violation. To me it looks like you are looking for reasons that the player will definitely not get his money!

This approach is really sad and very disappointing!

Also mehr als 4 Euro habe ich angeblich beim ROULETTE gesetzt, NICHT bei den Slots!

Was ich auch als sehr komisch empfunden habe ist, dass ich nach mehreren Anfragen wo meine Auszahlung endlich bleibt das Casino behauptet hat, dass ich angeblich verbotene Spiele wie Aztec Gold gespielt habe und man das jetzt prüfen würde. Nachdem ich dann nochmal nachgefragt habe, ist man dann mit dem Verstoß beim ROULETTE gekommen. Für mich sieht das danach aus, dass man Gründe sucht, dass der Spieler auf keinen Fall sein Geld bekommt!

Dieses Vorgehen ist wirklich traurig und sehr enttäuschend!!!

According to the screenshot that you attached in your very first comment, there have been 14 bets placed on the Lightning Roulette greater than €4 (which is the maximum bet allowed while completing bonus wagering requirements). Could you please advise if you’re aware of placing those bets? Thank you. 

At first I definitely didn't know that I couldn't place more than 4 euros in the ROULETTE and of course I didn't want that either . Nowhere in the casino are you openly advised that this is not allowed! If you don't know, you've lost straight away, as the slots and ROULETTE are not blocked.

Please try to find a compromise with the casino !!! Many Thanks!

Zunächst wusste ich definitiv nicht davon, dass ich nicht mehr als 4 Euro platzieren darf im ROULETTE und ich wollte das natürlich auch nicht. Man wird auch nirgendwo im Casino ganz offen darauf hingewiesen, dass das nicht erlaubt ist! Wenn man das nicht weiß, hat man direkt verloren , da die Slots und ROULETTE nicht gesperrt sind.

Bitte versuchen Sie mit dem Casino einen Kompromiss zu finden!!! Vielen Dank!

There’s an important principle that says, "ignorance of the law is no excuse". It means that you can’t defend your actions by arguing you didn’t know they were illegal or forbidden, even if you honestly did not realize you were breaking the rules. Casinos try to design their bonuses to be as attractive as possible, but the rules must always be followed.

Our position is closely explained in Fair Gambling Codex https://casino.guru/fair-gambling-codex-for-casinos#max-bets: The max bet rule is, in fact, an industry-standard, just as the fact that a casino has the right to seize the player's winnings from bonus play after breaking this rule. We prefer not to go against industry standards by penalizing casinos that use the maximum bet rule against players from time to time.

If software enforcement is not possible, each case should be judged separately, so that only players who have broken the rule knowingly and systematically to gain an advantage are punished.

As I mentioned previously, you have placed 14 bets greater than the allowed one, some of them winnings bets.

If you are aware of this kind of action, sadly, there is not much we can do to support your case at this time. future. Please let me know if there is any additional information that I have overlooked, but I’m afraid I will be forced to reject your complaint. Thank you in advance for your reply and understanding.

I did NOT know about this rule and of course with the ROULETTE I did NOT know that it was not allowed!

Therefore I ask you to find a compromise with the casino in my individual case!

Ich habe von dieser Regelung NICHT gewusst und beim ROULETTE habe ich natürlich auch NICHT gewusst, dass es nicht erlaubt ist!

Deshalb bitte ich Sie in meinem Einzelfall einen Kompromiss mit dem Casino zu finden!

I would also be willing to forego part of my winnings, that could also be suggested to the casino!

Ich wäre auch bereit auf einen Teil meiner Gewinne zu verzichten, dass könnte man dem Casino auch vorschlagen!

As I mentioned previously, "not knowing" or "ignoring" a rule doesn’t mean that it could be breached. There is no space for negotiation and I’m truly sorry that we are not in a position to help you. Maximum bet rule has been breached several times and the casino had an absolute right to confiscate your winnings. I would strongly recommend reading all the T&Cs carefully before you start playing to avoid any misunderstandings in the future. Casinos try to design their bonuses to be as attractive as possible, but the rules must always be followed. We always try to help the players who have been accused or treated unfairly, unfortunately, this is not your case. 

Please let me know if there is any additional information that I have overlooked otherwise, I will be forced to reject your complaint. I really wish I were of more help. Thank you.

Despite the terms and conditions, the casino ALWAYS has the opportunity to make individual decisions on a case-by-case basis. The casino could therefore make a customer-friendly decision. That you say the casino has no discretion is absolutely wrong !!! The casino just doesn't want to decide in the interests of the customer and that absolutely does NOT speak for this casino.

Das Casino hat trotz der AGBs IMMER die Möglichkeit individuell und von Einzelfall zu Einzelfall zu entscheiden. Das Casino könnte deshalb eine kundenfreundliche Entscheidung treffen. Das Sie behaupten, dass das Casino kein Ermessen hat, ist absolut falsch!!! Das Casino will einfach nicht im Sinne des Kunden entscheiden und das spricht absolut NICHT für dieses Casino.

In your Codex you write the following:

"However, if software enforcement of the maximum stake is not possible, each case will be assessed individually so that only players who knowingly and systematically violated the rule in order to gain an advantage will not be paid out."

This also applies to me, why am I not being helped? I unknowingly broke the standard! You write that each individual case will then be assessed individually!

In Ihrem Codex schreiben Sie folgendes:

"Wenn jedoch eine Software-Durchsetzung des maximal zulässigen Einsatzes nicht möglich ist, wird jeder Fall einzeln beurteilt, sodass nur Spieler, die wissentlich und systematisch gegen die Regel verstoßen haben, um einen Vorteil zu erzielen, nicht ausgezahlt werden."

Das trifft auch auf mich zu, warum wird mir nicht geholfen? Ich habe unwissentlich gegen den Standard verstoßen! Sie schreiben, dass dann jeder Einzelfall individuell beurteilt wird!

In our Fair Gambling Codex is written the following:

"If software enforcement is not possible, each case should be judged separately, so that only players who have broken the rule knowingly and systematically to gain an advantage are punished."

"Many online casino players know about this rule and are careful not to break it when playing with bonus money.

However, there are still a lot of players who are not aware of the maximum bet rule. These players might unintentionally break it. This often happens after a big win, when a player might naturally increase the bet sizes because of the increased bankroll. In these situations, players feel cheated if their wins are taken from them later on because they weren't aware that they'd done anything wrong."

Could you please forward your game history to petronela.k@casino.guru? Thank you in advance.

Hello Petronela,

Unfortunately there is no game history available for download at Crazeplay. Back then I asked support to send the game history, but I never got it! Can you contact Crazeplay directly, please?

As I have already written, I NEVER bet more than EUR 2.50 on the slots. Unfortunately, I accidentally bet more on the ROULETTE. That seems to be a problem for Crazeplay. Crazeplay didn’t have a technical ban and I didn’t know anything about the rules!

Hallo Petronela,

leider gibt es bei Crazeplay keinen Spielverlauf als Download. Ich hatte damals den Support, um Zusendung des Spielverlaufs gebeten, aber diesen habe ich nie bekommen! Können Sie sich bitte direkt an Crazeplay wenden?

Wie ich bereits geschrieben habe, habe ich bei den Slots NIE mehr als 2,50 EUR gewettet. Leider habe ich versehentlich beim ROULETTE mehr gesetzt. Das scheint für Crazeplay ein Problem zu sein. Crazeplay hat aber technisch keine Einsatzsperre vorgesehen und ich wusste nichts von der Regelung!

Thank you very much, Roger, for your reply. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Matej who will be at your assistance. I wish you best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.

Many Thanks! I hope Matej can achieve something directly at Crazeplay. I think you have to talk to Casino Crazeplay directly about the case.

Vielen Dank! Ich hoffe, dass Matej etwas direkt bei Crazeplay erreicht. Ich denke man muss direkt mit dem Casino Crazeplay über den Fall reden.

Hello Roger.

I understand your frustration. To better understand what happened and why the casino void your winnings, I need to have access to your game log.

I would like to invite the casino representative into the case. Can you please provide me with Roger's game log? (matej@casino.guru)

Thanks.

Hello Matej!

Thank you for your help and support!

I would be happy if we could find a compromise where both sides could live with.

Hallo Matej!

Vielen Dank für Ihre Hilfe und Unterstützung!

Ich würde mich freuen, wenn wir einen Kompromiss finden würden wo beide Seiten mit leben könnten.

Hello Richard!

You definitely cannot download an entire game history from your website. Even when asked in your chat, I have not received the ENTIRE game history to this day.

I definitely didn't know anything about your bonus conditions, which is why I accidentally wagered more than 4 EUR on the ROULETTE. It would be absolutely illogical if you knew about your rules and then offered more. I also wonder why your casino doesn't want to stop technically higher stakes so that as a newbie you inadvertently no longer bid ??? In the meantime I have inquired and found that reputable casinos technically make higher wagers during a bonus impossible!

For me there is a bit of intention behind it, in order to confiscate the winnings of the players when a payout occurs!

They are not at all ready to compromise with their players, which I think is a shame. Every casino has a margin of discretion in such a case!

Hallo Richard!

Einen gesamten Spielverlauf kann man auf Ihrer Webseite definitiv nicht downloaden. Auch auf Rückfrage in Ihrem Chat habe ich bis zum heutigen Tage keinen GESAMTEN Spielverlauf zugeschickt bekommen.

Von Ihren Bonusbedingungen wusste ich definitiv nichts, deshalb habe ich beim ROULETTE auch versehentlich mehr als 4 EUR gesetzt. Es wäre ja absolut unlogisch, wenn man von Ihren Regeln wüsste und dann mehr bietet. Ich frage mich auch warum Ihr Casino nicht technisch höhere Einsätze stoppen möchte, damit man als Newbie versehentlich nicht mehr bietet??? Ich habe mich inzwischen erkundigt und festgestellt, dass seriöse Casinos technisch höhere Einsätze während eines Bonus unmöglich machen!

Für mich steckt da schon etwas Absicht dahinter, um bei einer Auszahlung, die Gewinne der Spieler zu beschlagnahmen!

Sie sind ja auch überhaupt nicht bereit mit ihren Spielern einen Kompromiss einzugehen, was ich auch total schade finde. Jedes Casino hat in so einem Fall einen Ermessensspielraum!

And that you indirectly accuse me of fraud goes absolutely too far in my opinion. Because that's not true! I just wish for fairness and fairness like many other players on this website from Casuno-Guru!

Und das Sie mir indirekt Betrug unterstellen, geht meiner Meinung absolut zu weit. Das stimmt nämlich nicht! Ich wünsche mir nur Gerechtigkeit und Fairness, wie viele andere Spieler auf dieser Website von Casuno-Guru!

Hello Roger,

Bet history can get quite large so we only display a certain amount on your profile.

Telling me that you did not know anything about the bonus rules will not help you in your case since you know exactly that every casino has bonus terms and conditions. Also, insisting that this was an "accident" will also not help you since the betting pattern shows otherwise. (I am sending the betting history to the admins as I can't attach documents to the post)

Also, the games you searched for and the betting pattern shows that you are no "newbie" to gambling and you know exactly what games you were looking for and placing bets upon.

Also, not exactly sure where the word "fraud" was mentioned since nobody here accused you of fraud.

In any case, I am sending your bet history to the admins so they can see perfectly the style of play you where playing with your bonus.

There is nothing much I can add to this case, hope the betting history clear things up.

Wish you a great day ahead!

Regards,

Richard

As you write here, you are implying that I knowingly and intentionally violated the bonus conditions! BUT THAT'S NOT TRUE!

Please explain to me why your casino does not take any technical precautions so that you cannot make higher stakes ??? In the ROULETTE or in the slots there is no indication that you are no longer allowed to bid. Allegedly only in your small print!

Any player who is relatively new to the casino would fall into your bonus trap and lose his winnings and gamble on casinos like yours !!!!

So, wie Sie hier schreiben, unterstellen Sie mir eben doch, dass ich wissentlich und absichtlich gegen, die Bonusbedingungen verstossen habe! DAS STIMMT ABER NICHT!

Erklären Sie mir doch Bitte mal, warum Ihr Casino, keine technisch Vorkehrungen trifft, dass man keine höheren Einsätze machen kann??? Beim ROULETTE oder in den Slots wird nirgends darauf hingewiesen, dass man nicht mehr bieten darf. Angeblich nur in Ihrem Kleingedruckten!

Jeder Spieler, der relativ neu im Casino spielt, würde in Ihre Bonusfalle tappen und seine Gewinne verlieren und darauf spekulieren Casinos, wie ihres!!!!

After I check the logs, it is clear that Roger breached the bonus terms and conditions. He was placing high bets on lightning roulette while he has an active bonus. This led to several winnings, and because of that, even when we individually evaluate the case, we believe that the casino had a right to void the winnings.

Roger, please understand that max bet rule is enforced (a player can't make the high bets) only in few casinos. To such casinos, we are giving badge: fair & safe casino. So far 2 casinos have this badge from over 3100+.

When you made your winnings, your real money was already depleted, and you played only with a bonus which the casino gave you. The casino has then right to set rules on how the bonus should be used, and you as a player should follow these rules. When you breach them, they actually not take any of your money away. They are taking back their promotion, and they have a right for that. Therefore, in this case, we have no another option than to reject the case. I am sorry, Roger, please be more careful next time.

Even if the terms and conditions were violated from the casino's point of view, Crazeplay's decision not to pay out any winnings is really very tough and absolutely customer-unfriendly. So you don't advertise your own casino. That's how you lose your customers!

Auch wenn die AGBs aus Sicht des Casinos verletzt wurden, ist die Entscheidung von Crazeplay, keinen Gewinn auszuzahlen, wirklich sehr hart und absolut kundenunfreundlich. So macht man keine Werbung fürs eigene Casino. Man verliert auch so seine Kunden!

Roger, if you wish you can complain to the regulator. But I can assure you that you have zero chance of winning. The logs are clear. There is nothing we can do here.

Yes, I will definitely do that!

It is time that there was more transparency and fairness in online casinos.

If the online casinos adhered to it, there would also be fewer complaints.

Ja, das werde ich auf jeden Fall tun!

Es wird Zeit, dass es mehr Transparenz und Fairness in Online Casinos gibt.

Wenn die Online Casinos sich daran halten würden, gäbe es auch weniger Beschwerden.

Because the casino provided us with clear evidence, we are rejecting the case.

Roger if you want to contact the regulator, please check the point 9 of the casino terms and conditions.