Heybets Casino - Ο παίκτης ισχυρίζεται ότι η πληρωμή καθυστέρησε.

From what I am reading this will come as no surprise to the moderators here at Casino.guru. I won a substantial amount from Heybets as new patron.

I made a deposit of $300 on Nov 14, and played a few games ultimately hitting a decent jackpot on Gates of Olympus and then quite a few smaller ones on various other machines. During this time, I was talking to my 'Host' Luke Jackson and he was keeping me abreast of my playthrough requirements and congratulating me on my wins.

When it came time to cash out I had asked Luke what kind of requirements they had for KYC...his response was 'you'll be fine, just fill out the request'. To which I did, and since have been bounced around, had random requests sprung up on me, and no given the silent treatment.

All of their requests for documentation, ID, proof of address were all submitted within 3 hours of their requests. I've spent every night since the jackpot with my laptop next to me in bed, insuring that no message went unanswered for as short a time as possible.

I have complied 100%, yet I cannot be given a simple answer as to when I can expect my payment....my 'host' now doesn't respond on Telegram nor the Heybets chat on their website. I have been incredibly patient, and understanding. I haven't been hostile or aggressive, and have refrained from using any vulgarities or slurs, and in response I get nothing...it's been crickets!

I am seeking your assistance in getting my funds as quickly as possible. Thank you for your help and consideration on this matter.

Dear itninja04,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. We are sorry to hear about the issue with your withdrawal and understand your concern. However, please bear in mind that it’s quite usual for withdrawals to take a couple of days or even weeks to get fully processed. This means that it may take some time before your money appears in your account. This delay may be caused by unfinished KYC verification or a high volume of withdrawal requests.
That’s why we advise players to be patient, cooperate fully with casino, and wait at least 14 days after requesting their withdrawals before submitting a complaint.

If your account has been successfully verified, your game history checked, your withdrawal approved by the casino, and you still haven't received your winnings by 14 days since requesting the withdrawal, we will intervene and do our best to help you.
Thank you in advance for your patience and understanding.

Best regards,
Complaints Resolution Center

I completely understand everything you've written and hope they respond before this case opens...but I'm not going to hold my breath!

Hey Kristina,

We are still awaiting further information for this account to be verified.

I attached you a screenshot of our last message with the player.

Best

Tenace literally sent the email to me 2 min. ago then responded to this thread. But failed to mention that I have been asking for the past 2 weeks WHAT OTHER pieces of information would they need, or even possibly need to help move this process along. Now they want me to send a photo of me holding my ID with my Heybets username on the photo...how long is this going to take now? Another 2 weeks?

My response to Tenance has been sent via email, and am including here for posterity.

Kristina, where can I send the documents and video that I have attached below? I'd also like to forward the email to you to validate what I have posted below.

----

Tenace, you can find the self-certified ID here: [REDACTED]

I have recorded a movie, and paused for a while on each portion you asked for above and at high enough resolution to gather still's if needed.

I am also including a bank statement from Revolut for the past 2 months...this shows just shy of 15k in monies in and out (see Document account_statement_2023-09-01_2023-11-30.pdf)

And finally I have included a pay-stub showing income from my primary source. (see Document Statement for Nov 15, 2023.pdf)

Dear itninja04,

Have you received your withdrawal from the casino yet?

Hi Kristina, no I haven't received any payout yet, and it still shows as pending on their site. If I may ask, what lead you to think it might have been sent?

Heybets has confirmed that my documents are in order but is still requesting another 7 days to review. Not sure what there is to review seeing as it's literally a video with me showing my license, my pay stub and a bank statement. If all the names match, the address matches, we should be good right?

Hello everyone,

Thank you both for your replies.

itninja04, unfortunately, it may take a few days to review documents regardless of the form in which you provided them. Let's give it a few more days and if there is no development, we will intervene. Please, keep us posted.

I completely understand, I do not believe my expectations though maintaining open lines of communication and keeping me apprised the status is out of line. Since requesting a payout everyone at Heybets takes ages to reply, however before hand they were quick to reach out and response. Even now I have sent them messages that went unread all while a friend in another state messaged them with his brand new account, and they responded within minuets.

All I am asking for (from Heybets) here is to get this resolved as quickly as possible, and as efficiently as possible. Why did they wait a week before asking for further documentation? Wouldn't it be prudent to gather it all at the same time? Well, yes, but in this case it does appear to be used as a delay tactic. Allowing them extra time when they knew all along either they needed said documentation or never actually needed it but instead just using it as an excuse to kick the can down the road a bit more.

I am being patient and giving them a wide berth as I do not know their customs nor the entirety of the requirements they feel obliged to uphold. But I won't allow for the proverbial wool to be pulled over my eyes. If I see BS, I'm going to call it out, as everyone on this forum should do.

I think what would make this entire process easier to digest and to set correct expectations is a simple 'This is where we are at right now, the next step is X, then Y, then Z'. This process shouldn't be dynamic, and should be very similar from a high level overview for all customers, not just specific ones.

Kristina not sure what's going on but the site is telling me it's my turn to reply although I was the last one to post anything here.

On that note, do we have any new updates?

Dear itninja04,

Has there been any news since my last message?

Kristina,

I have CC'ed you all communication, can you please verify you are receiving it?

At this point, here is where we are at:

11/28 - Tenace from HeyBets asked for self-certified ID. I sent that over along with a paystub, and bank statement since there's others that have reported that HeyBets could require it. I did this in an attempt to be efficient and mitigate any delays that they might impose. After I submitted that I requested that they confirm receipt and that it was satisfactory.

11/30 - Selena from HeyBets finally confirmed my documents were satisfactory.

12/1 - I thank Selena for letting me know.

12/9 - I request an update, later on that day Selena asks for a self-certified ID, which I replied that I had sent one and that she confirmed it was correct and satisfactory. I reminded her that I had sent it over to Tenace 2 weeks prior (btw this is all in the same chat/email thread, so her simply scrolling up or down to read the rest of the message she'd have seen her's and Tenance's previous comments [I know this, because I signed up for an Intercom account (same chat system they use) to see how the data and interaction works]). I then sent her over the same content I sent Tenace and she replied that I had only sent over proof of address and ID. If that were the case, why when I asked on 11/28 for confirmation didn't they tell me it was missing when the Self Certified ID was the SUBJECT of the request from Tenace to begin with? It's because they are using this as a stall tactic, and they know full and well that I sent over what was requested AND then some extra.

12/9 - I send over yet again another self-certified ID and ask again if it's satisfactory, and up to now it's not been read by HeyBets.

I am sending you an email Kristina with the screenshots and chat transcript. I tried posting here on a subsequent response but there were too many photos.

Thank you very much, itninja04, for your cooperation. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Stefan (stefan.m@casino.guru) who will be at your service. I wish you the best of luck and hope the problem will be resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.  

Hello itninja04,

I am so sorry to hear your account has not yet been verified. I will contact the casino and try to resolve the issue as soon as possible.

Now I would like to invite a Heybets Casino representative to join this conversation and participate in resolving this complaint.

Dear Heybets Casino,

Could you state why the player's account has not yet been verified?

Thank you in advance for providing the information.

We would like to ask the casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’ which may negatively affect its rating.

Hey Stefan,

after a complete and carefully checked KYC procedure, we can finally confirm that the user is in an restricted area. We already informed the user about the permanent closure of his account (screenshot).

Also we will refund the users initial deposit of $338.

Best Regards

Dear Heybets Casino,

Has the player registered from a restricted country at the time of registration? Has the player used a VPN to bypass the restricted country?

I am looking forward to your response.

Heybets can claim that they just found out that I am in the US but this is in fact not true. I had Heybets match my player status at other casinos, one of them being MGM in Las Vegas, to prove my status I sent them a statement from MGM which has my name and address at the top of the statement.

Furthermore, my "host" and I were in contact on Telegram. During one of our conversations I mentioned going to Vegas again and that I had lost my wallet and that I hope I can find it because Texas DMV's give paper licenses until the new one ships in the mail...so he knew I was in Texas as well....and the entire time he was the one assuring me everything was going to be okay and this was just standard practice.

I'd love to show you all those Telegram conversations, but my host was gracious enough to delete our conversation history and then block me. What a great guy!

I don't know what can be done from here, but Stefan I would appreciate any guidance you may have on next steps.

We would like to ask the casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’ which may negatively affect its rating.

Hey Stefan,

yes he registered from a restricted area. He already got his money back as well. (screenshot attached)

Best Regards

Hello itninja04,

Could you confirm if you have received the funds?

I am looking forward to your response.

What I received is $9,648.21 less than what Heybets owes me.

They sent me $351.79, and I expect the rest.

They knew I was in the US from day 1...and if not at the very least they knew at the start of this inquisition.

As I stated earlier, I would love to show proof of them knowing i was in the US but Luke deleted our Telegram thread and ultimately destroyed incriminating evidence.

Hello itninja04,

1. Could you state where you are from and from which country you have registered in the registration form?
2. Did you use a VPN to bypass the registration from the restricted country?

I'll be awaiting your reply.

Sorry Stefan, I didn't see you had prompted me.

I am in the US, I do use a VPN day in and day out. Not specifically to bypass any GEO restrictions, only for the anonymity online. That being said, I do know for certain that Heybets until recently did not have any Geo Restrictions in place, and it wasn't until my complaint was started that they begun enforcing those restrictions.

I want to be clear though, they knew where I lived, I had spoken to Luke about heading to Vegas to see the Formula 1 Race, and discussed how different it was in Vegas compared to Texas. On top of that, when they requested my KYC data I asked him specifically, and he assured me "it'd all be fine, just relax"....obviously I would love to share this with you, but since he deleted our Telegram thread, the messages went with it.

I never once misrepresented who I was, where I lived or any other detail about me.

I did find this little gem in my email...here he again reassures me it'll all be fine.

Here (make this private please) I send them my Win/Loss statements from MGM so they can VIP match me:

Here's a video proving it:

https://ozziebsub.blob.core.windows.net/sharex-uploads/HeybetsComplaint_ProofOfAddress.mp4

This occurred well before the complaint, almost 2 weeks before.

Hello itninja04,

Could you clarify when did you create an account with Heybets Casino?

I'll be awaiting your reply.

I created my account on November 14, 2023. The timeline is in my very first post on here if you wish to know more details about the wagering that occured.

Or feel free to ask 🙂 I don't mind providing any details you need.

Dear Heybets Casino,

From our point of view, the right thing to do is to check for restricted countries during the account creation process, and to not allow players from restricted countries to register and play. If the casino knows about restricted countries and also knows the player's country of residence, it's not a big issue to enforce this rule.

If the casino allows a player from a restricted country to play because it hasn't implemented this check, it should accept that it was the casino's mistake and pay out all winnings to the player despite the fact that they shouldn't have been allowed to play in the first place, provided that the player hasn't done anything else that's against the rules.

We would like you to reconsider your standpoint as we believe that the player should be paid in full. If you fail to pay the player in full, the complaint will be closed as "unresolved" which leads to lowering the rating on our website.

I hope we come up to a mutual agreement.

Hello Stefan,

we of course check for restricted areas. But if the user finds a workaround for this initial check, its a problem.

Thats why we do detailed KYC checks later on again to really find out all the information we need. And in this case we found out that the user is playing from a restricted area. Thats why we refunded his initial deposits and closed his account because we do not accept his business.

Best

Dear Heybets Casino,

I am afraid our standpoint won't change. Based on our fair gambling codex (https://casino.guru/fair-gambling-codex-for-casinos), we believe that the player should be paid in full, otherwise, the complaint will be closed as "unresolved", which will negatively affect your rating.

I hope we can come to a mutual agreement.

I'll be awaiting your reply.

Hello Stefan,

I dont really understand this - the user registers from a restricted area with a workaround and violates our Terms. We then proceed to do detailed KYC and find out the player is from a restricted area and we inform the player about that, close his account, and pay his initial deposit back.

Can you please tell me what exact passage of the gambling codex we violate here?

Best Regards

Dear Heybets Casino,

I will paste the whole relevant part of a Fair Gambling Codex here:

5. Restricted countries

All casinos accept players from certain countries only, with the rest of the countries being 'restricted'. This means that players from these restricted countries are not allowed to open an account and play in the casino. This is the same for all gambling sites, but what differs is how casinos deal with players from restricted countries.

The casino's point of view

Many casinos only state the restricted countries in their T&Cs, so it's the responsibility of players to check whether they are allowed to play at them or not.

Whenever someone from a restricted country registers, these casinos allow them to create an account, but only let them know about the restriction when they want to make a withdrawal. As long as a player is losing, the casino is OK with it, but as soon as the player wins and wants to withdraw money, they use the 'restricted countries' rule to decline the withdrawal and block the player's account.

This is, of course, extremely unfair, as players might register without knowing about the restrictions, and casinos are taking advantage of their mistake, often knowingly and intentionally.

The player's point of view

If a player is able to access the casino's website, open the registration form, create an account, deposit and play, it's understandable that they assume that they are allowed to play at this casino.

Some experienced or careful players might read the T&Cs and find out that their country is restricted, but these players are definitely in the minority.

Our position

It is not acceptable to let players gamble if a casino knows that they are from a restricted country and if the casino plans to refer to the rule about restricted countries whenever a player requests their first withdrawal. This is completely against the rules of fair play, as the casino is knowingly letting a player wager money without a chance to actually win something in return.

Many casinos claim that this is difficult or impossible to implement into their systems, but it is simply about comparing the player's country of residence with the list of restricted or allowed countries; therefore, we do not consider it to be that difficult on a technological level.

Our recommendations for casinos

The right thing to do is to check for restricted countries during the account creation process, and to not allow players from restricted countries to register and play. If the casino knows about restricted countries and also knows the player's country of residence, it's not a big issue to enforce this rule.

If the casino allows a player from a restricted country to play because it hasn't implemented this check, it should accept that it was the casino's mistake and pay out all winnings to the player despite the fact that they shouldn't have been allowed to play in the first place, provided that the player hasn't done anything else that's against the rules.

Requirements for both 'fair casinos' and 'fair and safe casinos'

For a casino to be classified as a 'fair casino' or a 'fair and safe casino' by our review team, it must not allow players from restricted countries to create an account and play. The check for restricted countries must be done during the account-creation process.

We would like to ask the casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’ which may negatively affect its rating.

Hey Stefan,

I agree with your Codex and statement. We ARE checking for the area but the player is having a workaround for that and he appears to be in a non restricted area at the time of the check.

Best

Dear Heybets Casino,

I have checked the registration form at heybets.io and it is possible to register without filling in the country of residence. This means you are not checking the player's country of residence at the time of registration. I would like to kindly ask you to reconsider paying the player.

I hope we come to a mutual agreement.

Hey,

Can you give me the username of your test registration please? And what country are you accessing the site from?

Best

Dear Heybets Casino,

I am afraid I cannot disclose this information.

Could you state if you are willing to pay the player the funds? If you fail to pay the player, the complaint will be closed as unresolved, which will negatively affect your rating on our website.

I'll be awaiting your reply.

We would like to ask the casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’ which may negatively affect its rating.

We have security measures in place but if the user has a workaround its very hard to detect him.

Thats why we have our KYC process where we pay attention to a lot of details and where in this case the issue was found. So the team did their work there.

Dear Heybets Casino,

Thank you for your response and the information provided.

As I have mentioned above, the player's country of residence was not checked during the registration. We believe that the player should be paid in full in this case. If you fail to pay the player, the complaint will be closed as "unresolved" which will lead to a significant lowering of your safety index on our website. Thank you very much for your understanding.

We would like to ask the casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’ which may negatively affect its rating.

The users location of course was checked. I already explained that. But due to the workaround everything was okay.

Hello Heybets Casino,

The country of residence needs to be checked while registering in the casino. It needs to be done in a way that the player chooses or enters his country of residence. You do not have this feature implemented and therefore we believe that the player's country was not checked at the time of the registration. We would like you to reconsider paying the player in full, otherwise the complaint will be closed as unresolved.

I'll be awaiting your reply.

We would like to ask the casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’ which may negatively affect its rating.

Hello Heybets Casino,

As previously stated, it is essential to verify the player's country of residence during the casino registration process. This verification should allow the player to select or input their country of residence. Since this feature is not currently in place, we suspect that the player's country was not verified during registration.

Hello itninja04,

I have tried to contact the casino repeatedly but had no success. I’m afraid there is not much that can be achieved without cooperation from its side. I will mark the complaint as "unresolved" in our system. I understand this isn't a satisfactory solution to your issue. However, the decrease in the rating caused by unresolved complaints might help to change the casino's approach. If the casino decides to react, we will reopen the complaint, and you will be notified by email. In the meantime, I recommend you contact the Gaming Curacao Authority (complaints@gaming-curacao.com or via the 'Contact' button found on their website) and submit a complaint to them. The Gaming Authority has more options and tools to help players. Please let me know if you need help with submitting the complaint or how they responded if you can do it on your own (stefan.m@casino.guru). I am sorry I could not be of more help on this occasion.

Best regards,

Stefan, Casino.Guru