Nucleonbet Casino - Τα κέρδη του παίκτη έχουν περιοριστεί.

In addition to several breaches of contract, my credit was simply deleted. This was also confirmed again by email, so no technical error. This was justified with risk management and a general terms and conditions reference that has nothing to do with it. Both nonsense.

In the wording "We are sorry to inform you that your withdrawal request has been rejected and 17.018 EUR deducted." As a result, my credit was reduced from EUR 18,200 (as of August 1st) to EUR 182 (as of August 2nd), i.e. deleted from my customer account (criminal, criminal offence). Money "disappears" there.

The transfer history only shows a payment of EUR 1,000 rejected by nucleonbet. The approximately EUR 18,000 that have disappeared are not even noted there.

Out of a total of 22,200, EUR 4,000 was paid out (four payments of EUR 1,000). About 18,000 EUR was deleted. The terms and conditions were already violated several times during the payout.

Note: I cannot upload the attachment for the email history. Please pass this on.

Neben mehreren Vertragsverstössen wurde meine Guthaben einfach gelöscht. Das wurde per Mail auch nochmal bestätigt, also kein technischer Fehler. Begründet wurde das mit RiskManagement und einem AGB-Verweis, der damit gar nichts zu tun hat. Beides Unsinn.

Im Wortlaut "We are sorry to inform you that your withdrawal request has been rejected and 17.018 EUR deducted." Im Ergebnis wurde mein Guthaben von 18.200 Eur (Stand 01.08.) auf 182 Eur (Stand 02.08.) reduziert, also vom meinem Kundenkonto gelöscht (Kriminell, Straftatbestand). Dort "verschwindet" also Geld.

Die Transferhistorie zeigt nur eine von nucleonbet abgelehnte Auszahlungen i.H.v. 1.000 Eur. Die verschwunden ca. 18T Eur sind dort nicht mal vermerkt.

Von insgesamt 22.200 wurden 4.000 Eur ausgezahlt (vier Auszahlungen i.H.v 1.000 Eur). Etwa 18.000 Eur wurde gelöscht. Bereits bei den Auszahlung wurde mehrfach gegen die AGB verstossen.

Anmerkung: Den Anhang für den E-Mail Verlauf kann ich nicht hochladen. Reiche diesen gerne nach.

Dear niceguym,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. Please allow me to ask you a few questions, so I can understand the whole situation completely. Do I understand correctly that you currently have €182 in your account? Have you accumulated your winnings with or without an active bonus?

Have you been informed why the casino confiscated your winnings?

I hope we will be able to help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you very much in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Kristina

Hello Kristina,

1.) Bonuses

I sent attachments. There you will see the balance

- 01.08. 16,200 + 2 open 1,000 withdrawals

- 02.08. 182 euros

Below you can see bonus = 25 euros. I never used these 25 euros. Maybe I have to activate it first. So I never used a bonus.

2.) Refusal, yes, I was informed. When asked, the casino confirmed "its decision" again.

original

"We are sorry to inform you that your withdrawal request has been rejected and 17,018 EUR deducted.

This decision has been made by our risk department, on business grounds, and in line with our terms and conditions:

63. Liability & Withdraw Limits

63.1 The maximum net winnings, based on licensee liability, in any 24-hour period per account are limited to €5000. "

The following comments on my part.

As with other e-mails, the replies seem pretty stupid. The terms and conditions note 6.31 only says that no more than 5,000 may be paid out within 24 hours. However, my payout is limited to EUR 1,000. So I couldn't apply for more than EUR 1,000 per 24 hour payout. So nonsense/nonsense. Apart from that, if a payment is rejected, the money has to be written back to the account.

The risk management note is also nonsense. If a casino cannot withdraw money, the license should be revoked from the casino. Deleting winnings/credit without real justification is a criminal offense for me.

Kind regards, Mirko R***

Hallo Kristina,

1.) Bonus

Ich hatte Anhänge mitgeschickt. Dort sehen Sie dass Guthaben

- 01.08. 16.200 + 2offene 1.000 Auszahlungen

- 02.08. 182 Eur

Darunter sieht man Bonus = 25 Eur. Diese 25 Eur habe ich nie genutzt. Eventuell muss ich das erst aktivieren. Ich habe also nie einen Bonus genutzt.

2.) Ablehnung, Ja, ich wurde informiert. Auf Nachfrage wurde hat das Casino "seine Entscheidung" auch nochmal bestätigt.

Original

"We are sorry to inform you that your withdrawal request has been rejected and 17.018 EUR deducted.

This decision has been made by our Risk department, on business grounds, and in line with our terms and conditions:

63. Liability & Withdraw Limits

63.1 The maximum net winnings, based on licensee liability, in any 24-hour period per account are limited to 5000€. "

Dazu folgende Anmerkungen meinerseits.

Wie auch bei anderen E-Mails wirken die Antworten ziemlich bescheuert. Der AGB Hinweis 6.31 sagt lediglich, dass innerhalb von 24h nicht mehr als 5.000 ausgezahlt werden dürfen. Meine Auszahlung sind aber auf 1.000 Eur begrenzt. Ich konnte also garnicht mehr als 1.000 Eur per 24h Auszahlung beantragen. Also Unsinn/Schwachsinn. Davon abgesehen müsse man bei Ablehnung einer Auszahlung ja das Geld wieder dem Konto geschreiben.

Ebensfall Unsinn ist der Riskmanagement-Hinweis. Wenn ein Casino kein Geld auszahlen kann, sollte man dem Casino die Lizenz entziehen. Das man Gewinne/Guthaben ohne echte Begründung löscht, ist für mich eine Straftat.

Viele Grüsse Mirko R***

Ok I have now read the rejection notice again more carefully. It doesn't refer to the payment. But then I would say that this is an "unacceptable" clause. And so it can be treated as if it doesn't exist.

Incidentally, there is no point 6.31 in the General Terms and Conditions. What is meant is 63.1.

O.k. Ich habe den Ablehungshinweis jetzt nochmal genauer gelesen. Der bezieht sich doch nicht auf die Auszahlung. Dann würde ich aber sagen, dass das eine "nicht zulässige" Klausel ist. Und damit so behandelt werden kann, als gäbe e sie nicht.

Einen Punkt 6.31 gibt es in den AGB übrigens nicht. Gemeint ist 63.1.

Hello Kristina,

two more hints

1) 5,000T was paid out not 4,000T

2.) I didn't make the profit in 24 hours. The session lasted about 30 hours. As I said, I doubt that the clause is permissible.

Hallo Kristina,

noch zwei Hinweise

1) Es wurde 5.000T ausgezahlt nicht 4.000T

2.) Den Gewinn habe ich nicht in 24h erzielt. Die Session hat etwa 30h gedauert. Wobei ich wie gesagt bezweifele dass die Klausel zulässig ist.

Thank you very much for your reply, niceguym. I would like to emphasize that we find it highly unfair when casinos limit players' real money winnings. In our opinion such rules are predatory and we believe that winnings accumulated without any active bonus should always be paid in full. We share more about this topic in our Fair Gambling Codex.

Before proceeding with this complaint, could you please forward all the relevant communication between you and the casino to kristina.s@casino.guru? Alternatively, you can post it here. Thank you in advance.

Thank you very much niceguym for your email. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Andrej (andrej.p@casino.guru) who will be at your assistance. I wish you the best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction soon.

Dear niceguym,

From now on, I’ll be taking care of your complaint. I’ll contact the casino and try my best to resolve the issue.

I would like to invite the representatives of Nucleonbet Casino to join this conversation.

Dear casino team,

Could you please share your point of view on niceguym’s case? Kindly note that in Casino Guru, as previously mentioned by my colleague Kristina, we believe that winnings that haven’t been accumulated with the help of a bonus shouldn’t be limited in any way. Therefore, we believe that the fair approach, in this case, would be to allow niceguym to withdraw the amount won in full.

Furthermore, could you please state the reason for reducing niceguym’s winnings to the amount equal to the limitation that applies to a 24-hour time period, despite that he accumulated his winnings in a time period exceeding 24 hours? Any relevant evidence can be forwarded to andrej.p@casino.guru.

I’m setting the timer for 7 days.

Hello Andrea,

first a correction. But doe profits were made within 24 hours.

But here is my reasoning for reducing the payout and deleting player balances:

To reduce my credit by approx. EUR 17,000 using 63.1 General Terms and Conditions, here is my legal perspective.

1.) Under the heading "Liability & Payout Limits" it is initially unclear whether the 24-hour notice in Clause 63.1 refers to payouts or making a profit. So legally vulnerable.

2.) I do not assume that 63.1 is an allowable clause. Then Nucleon should have displayed a hint on the surface. Thus, it is a "surprise clause" and the clause is void. With such a clause, Nucelon could keep profits as small as

For example, only 100 EUR may be won in 24 hours and without explicitly pointing this out. And Nucleon shouldn't offer jackpot games over 5,000 euros at all. Missing notices and jackpot games make it clear that the clause can only be ineffective if it relates to making a profit in 24 hours.

3.) Nucleon has deleted (customer) credit. The fact that this is possible is not stated in their general terms and conditions. I could have made more profits with the EUR 17,000. This is another of several breaches of contract committed by Nucleon.

In principle, keeping Nucleon remains fraudulent, so from my point of view it can also be prosecuted.

Hallo Andrea,

zunächst eine Korrektur. Doch doe Gewinne wurden innerhalb von 24h erzielt.

Hier aber meine Argumentation zu Reduzieung der Auszahlung und Löschungen von Spieler-Guthaben:

Zur Kürzung meines Guthabens um ca. 17.000 Eur mittels 63.1 AGB hier meine juristische Sichtweise.  

1.) Ob sich der 24h Hinweis der Klausel 63.1 auf Auszahlungen oder Gewinnerzielung bezieht ist unter der Überschrift "Haftung & Auszahlungslimits" zunächst unklar. Also juristisch leicht angreifbar.

2.) Ich gehe nicht davon, dass 63.1 eine zulässige Klausel ist. Dann hätte Nucleon einen Hinweis auf der Oberfläche anzeigen müssen. Somit ist es eine "überraschende Klausel" und damit ist die Klausel unwirksam. Mit solch einer Klausel könnten Nucelon Gewinne beliebig klein halten, 

z.B. es dürfen nur 100 EUR in 24h gewonnen werden und auch noch ohne dass sie darauf explizit hinweisen. Und Jackpotspiele über 5.000 Eur dürfte Nucleon dann garnicht anbieten. Fehlende Hinweise und Jackpotspiele verdeutlichen von selbst, dass die Klausel nur unwirksam sein kann, wenn sie sich auf die Gewinnerzielung in 24h beziehen sollte.

3.) Nucleon hat (Kunden)-Guthaben gelöscht. Dass das möglich ist, steht nicht in ihren Allgemeinen Geschäftsbedingung. Ich hätte mit den 17.000 Eur ja weitere Gewinne erzielen können. Dies ist ein weiterer von mehreren Vertragsverstössen die Nucleon begangen hat.

Grundsätzlich bleibt das Behalten von Nucleon betrügerisch, also aus meiner auch strafrechtlich verfolgbar.

Thank you, niceguym, for clarifying and for your input. I would like to point out that only informing players about win limits by including the respective clause in the Terms and Conditions, without warning players in any other way is the standard practice in online casinos that have such limits in place. That’s why we always advise players to check our review of a casino and thoroughly read all relevant Terms and Conditions before signing up. Nevertheless, as mentioned earlier, we consider the limitations Nucleonbet Casino places on players’ real money winnings to be unfair and predatory, even.

Unfortunately, we still haven’t received any response from the casino team. We will now try to contact the casino via other means.

We would like to ask Nucleonbet Casino team to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close this complaint as ‘Unresolved’.

Hello Andrey,

if Nucleon doesn't get in touch, I will take legal action.

But before you close the ticket, I didn't want to miss to say THANK YOU to you and your colleagues for your effort.

Have a good week and best regards from Berlin

Mirko R***

Hallo Andrej,

sollte sich Nucleon nicht melden, werde ich gerichtlichen Weg gehen.

Aber bevor Sie das Ticket schliessen, wollte ich es nicht versäumen Ihnen und Ihren Kollegen DANKE zu sagen, für Ihre Mühe.

Eine gute Woche und besten Grüße aus Berlin

Mirko R***

Dear niceguym,

I apologize, but since we haven’t received any response from the casino regarding the issue, we cannot continue resolving this complaint and we are forced to close it as ‘Unresolved’.

Normally, in order to reach any kind of agreement, all three parties (player, casino, and mediator) need to communicate closely. Unfortunately, this is not the case and we were left alone in our attempt to solve this issue.

I am very sorry I couldn't be of more help, but at least closing this complaint as unresolved will negatively influence the casino's rating and other players can read about your experience in our review.

As the disputed part of your winnings has been confiscated based on an imposed limitation which we, at Casino Guru, consider to be unfair, this complaint will be classified as ‘Against fair gambling’. We believe that players should in all cases be allowed to withdraw their real money winnings in full.

The casino can reopen this complaint anytime.