Art Casino - Τα κέρδη του παίκτη ακυρώθηκαν.

Hello gamblejoe52,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint and I'm really sorry to hear about your issue with Artasino. Please allow me to ask you a few more question before we would move forward.

Could you please advise if your account is already verified and is yes, since when exactly? Can you see your whole betting history? How many times did you bet over the allowed limit in total? When was the last time you spoke to the casino and what was it about?

Please understand that the casino has right to void the player's winnings if they breached the maximum allowed limit multiple times.

Looking forward to your answer.

Regards,

Nick

Hello Nick,

no, my account has not been verified yet. I sent the necessary data for KYC by email a few days ago. Live support advised me to go this route.

Yes, I can see my full betting history.

As already mentioned, I only made the "prohibited bet" after I had fully wagered the bonus. This happened 3 times. One purchase for €80 and two purchases for €8 each.

I never broke the rules during the bonus.

I had requested withdrawals and according to the operator they should have been paid out immediately.

I spoke to the casino again today. The decision remains. They gave me the email of the licensor.

Briefly summarized:

No violation of rules until wagering of bonus (over 40000€) —> withdrawal of 7000€ requested —> few minutes later purchases worth 80€,8€,8€ —> no increase of my winnings.

greetings

Hallo Nick,

nein, mein Konto wurde noch nicht verifiziert. Ich habe vor einigen Tagen schon die notwendigen Daten für KYC per Mail geschickt. Der Live-Support riet mir, diesen Weg zu gehen.

Ja, ich kann meinen vollständigen Wettverlauf einsehen.

Wie schon erwähnt, ich habe erst den „verbotenen Einsatz" getätigt, nachdem ich den Bonus vollständig umgesetzt hatte. Das geschah 3x. Ein Kauf für 80€ und zwei Käufe für jeweils 8€.

Während des Bonus habe ich die Regeln nie gebrochen.

Ich hatte Auszahlungen beantragt und diese hätten laut dem Betreiber sofort ausgezahlt werden sollen.

Ich habe heute erneut mit dem Casino gesprochen. Es bleibt bei der Entscheidung. Sie gaben mir die Email des Lizenzgebers.

Kurz zusammengefasst:

Bis zum Umsetzen des Bonus (über 40000€) kein Verstoß gegen die Regeln —> Auszahlung von 7000€ beantragt —> einige Minuten später Käufe im Wert von 80€,8€,8€ —> keine Vermehrung meines Gewinns.

Greetings

Hello team,

will my request still be processed?

Regards

Hallo Team,

wird mein Anliegen noch weiterhin bearbeitet?

Grüße

Hello gamblejoe52,

If you have just forwarded your documents for verification, be sure to give the casino 1-2 weeks to process them. Can you also please forward the betting history to nikolas.b@casino.guru?

Hello Nick,

I have sent an email. Many Thanks

Hallo Nick,

ich habe eine Mail geschickt. Vielen Dank

Thank you gamblejoe52 for al the information provided. I will now forward your complaint to my colleague Matej (matej@casino.guru) as the case requires further investigation specially if the wagering of the bonus was already finished and the bonus buys did not increase your winnings.

Wish you best luck resolving it.

Regards,

Nick

Hello Nick,

Thank you for continuing to work on my case. It's reassuring to hear that you share my opinion and are continuing to investigate the case.

Good luck and thanks again.

Hallo Nick,

vielen Dank für das weitere Bearbeiten meines Falles. Es beruhigt mich zu hören, dass Ihr meine Meinung teilt und den Fall weiter untersucht.

Auf gutes Gelingen und nochmals Danke.

Hello gamblejoe52,

I am sorry to hear about your troubles.

I would like to invite the casino representative into the case:

Dear casino representative, could you please check the case and explain to us what happened? Are truly only last bets the reason for confiscating the whole winnings?

Thank you Matej. I just wrote you an email.

Vielen Dank Matej. Ich habe dir soeben eine Mail geschrieben.

Hello Casino.guru,

As already stated and confirmed by player he did a bet over betting limit of 3 EUR while having active bonus. That is the reason why the player's winnings were voided according to bonus general T&C on clause 10.1.5 and 10.1.6.

10.1.5 All games have a maximum betting limit of 3 EUR (or equivalent in other currencies) per game round/spin during bonus is active on the player's account. Moreover, it is strictly forbidden to use any slot special features, including "gamble feature", "buy bonus feature, "buy free spins future" and "bonus hunt" (collecting bonuses with intention to later open it) during bonus active period ("active bonus") on the player's account. With any active Bonus following games are strictly forbidden to play; Jackpot games, Table Games, Video Poker, Virtual Games (Sports and Races), Live Casino or placing bets on any Sportsbook event. Violation of this rule will forfeit the bonus and any winnings resulting from the bonus or other games that were completed during the active bonus period.

10.1.6 Players are not allowed to collect and/or combine bonuses. Bonus is considered as active until withdrawal request has been processed or when players balance reach zero out threshold which is set to 1 EUR or equivalent in other currency.

Artcasino Security

Dear casino representative,

The player stated that he breached the maximum bet rule only while waiting for withdrawal when the bonus funds were already wagered.

Please confirm that the reason for confiscating the entire balance was three bets of 80 + 8 + 8, which the player made after he submitted a withdrawal request.

Hi Matej,

As already stated in our previous comment the reason why winnings have been confiscated was placing bets over maximum allowed limit of 3 EUR while player had active bonus period according to clause 10.1.6 from our Bonus T&C.

10.1.6 Players are not allowed to collect and/or combine bonuses. Bonus is considered as active until withdrawal request has been processed or when players balance reach zero out threshold which is set to 1 EUR or equivalent in other currency.

Whether player had requested withdrawal next to active balance, still maximum bet of 3 EUR applies on the balance left on account. Whether it goes for one bet or hundred bets over max. limit does not change the fact that violation happened.

Artcasino Security

Dear Artcasino representative.

Please send me the player game log if you can't answer the simple question. (matej@casino.guru)

Because for us matters what happened, and if gamblejoe52 didn't breach the rules before he submitted a withdrawal, you should process the withdrawal and void the money he left on the account.

Hi Matej,

We have already answered you that the timing of players withdrawal request has no meaning to Bonus T&C and does not change the fact of violation. Player has clearly breached the rules as by written above.

Regards to your statement about what balance should be voided or not its clearly written under clause 10.1.5 that ANY winnings resulted from thebonus. Indeed thank you for confirmation that violation happened.

"Violation of this rule will forfeit the bonus and any winnings resulting from the bonus or other games that were completed during the active bonus period."

We would kindly ask player to turn to our license regulator as an only official institution who can still make decision in your favor. Please take this suggestion as friendly and fair act from our casino.

Regards to complaint here there is not much to say as we came to same conclusions - both casino.guru and artcasino confirmed violation of bonus T&C.

Artcasino

Hi Gamblejoe,

Thank you for your comment. As said we kindly suggest you to contact our license issuer if you believe you are right. We will follow their decision strictly.

Artcasino

Dear Artcasino representative,

Unfortunately, your regulator (Curacao) is well known for practising only checking if the player breached the terms or not. The regulator is not checking the logic in the case or if the rule is fair.

If you put into the casino terms that all withdrawals made on Wednesday are fraud, all balances of players who try to withdraw on Wednesday will be voided. Curacao regulator will decide in favour of the casino because the rule was breached. (simplified example)

Because we evaluate casinos with different licenses and because in most of them, a situation like what happened in yours is impossible or at least handled differently, we cannot close the case in your favour even if the regulator decides that the casino has the right. (most likely, the regulator decides in the casino's favour)

If the player asked the casino to void the balance of €96 or made a 32x €3 bet and lost all, it would be the same situation as making three-bet of €8, €8 and €80.

In a different casino, the player's bonus balance would be transferred to a real balance, and bonus terms would be cancelled after the wagering is complete. So even if the player makes higher bets after the wagering is complete, it will not affect anything.

So please give me some rational reason why you want to confiscate the winnings except that the player breached an unfair rule.

Try to explain what advantage the player gained because I see none.

Hey Matej,

I just sent you an email.

Regards

Hey Matej,

ich habe dir soeben eine Mail geschickt.

Grüße

Hi Matej,

"So please give me some rational reason why you want to confiscate the winnings except that the player breached an unfair rule."

Please note our Bonus T&C were reviewed by Casino.guru Team (Jozef) before we went live couple of month ago with Artcasino and all bonus terms were confirmed fair and transparent at that time by Casino.Guru.

Thank you for understanding,

Artcasino Team

Dear Artcasino Team,

Indeed we do not penalize mentioned rule because the casinos that have this rule didn't use it as you did.

To make the situation more clear:

Most casinos convert the bonus into real money after the wagering is complete. However, some casinos use a similar rule as you do. However, this rule is used with some logic and does not affect pending withdrawals when the bonus is wagered.

If you put the things that happened on the timeline.

1.    The player took the bonus.
2.    The player won from the bonus.
3.    The player completed the wagering.
4.    The player submitted a withdrawal request.
5.    The player breached the bonus rules.

Now imagine that you are driving a car from point A to point E, passing points B, C, and D.

If you get a speed ticket in point D, is it fair if the police give you tickets for points B and C because they assume that if you went too fast in point D, you breach the speed limit in points B and C?

Another thing is that if the casino processes the withdrawal as you promised instantly and without the verification, this problem will not occur. (but this I do not consider as relevant)

From our perspective:

We are promoting casinos which are best for the players. In more than 50% of casinos from over 4000 that we have in our database, this situation cannot happen because these casinos convert bonus funds to real balance directly after the bonus is wagered. Several of these casinos also restrict the max bet rule by software during bonus wagering. From the remaining casinos, only casinos with sticky bonuses have a bit problem with this rule; however, 90% of these casinos would, in the same situation, pay the player.

So how could we not penalize your casino if we know that this situation might happen in the future and your casino strictly follows the rule, which is unfair in certain situations?

I recommend you reconsider this rule and limit it to situations where it makes sense or changes it.

Hi Casino.Guru,

Thank you for your comment. We really appreciate it.

Could you please explain how you can penalize our casino if you have checked our bonus T&C before we went live and now when "breach" happened you step on side of player and start claiming that rule is "unfair". We have believed in your team that rules are fairly and transparently written. Nevertheless we will change that rule after this case is closed and we invite you to check our bonus T&C once again.

"Indeed we do not penalize mentioned rule because the casinos that have this rule didn't use it as you did."

Comment: Why do we have Terms and Conditions then?

To conclude;

1. Casino.Guru Team has checked our Bonus T&C and rated it as 100% fair and transparent.
2. Player did a breach of bonus T&C (placing bets over max bet allowed before withdrawal was processed and not at the time of withdrawal request as written above).
3. Artcasino acted according to bonus T&C and is ready to change that term to be more players friendly.
4. Artcasino is ready to offer player money reward for exposing case which will lead to changes for new players to avoid situations like this one.
5. Artcasino has nothing against player if he/she decided to contact license issuer for binding decision.

Artcasino Team

Dear Artcasino and Matej,

I hope each of you had a good start into the new year.

Many thanks to both sides for discussing this case intensively and objectively. That goes to you too, Artcasino, for continuing to participate in the discussions. This definitely speaks for you.

I think that CasinoGuru considered your casino to be fair as basically they apply the same rules as most casinos. As a long time player I can attest that you are up to the standard of the rules.

It is only about the discussed rule 10.1.6. This is about the logic of the rule in my case.

Matej has emphasized and explained this several times. I also said at the very beginning (November 27th, 2022!) that I can understand the rule if my winnings had increased and the casino would not pay out the additional winnings. Although this type of rule implementation would still not be player-friendly and fair, it would be understandable.

It seems you have already made changes to the rule as it is no longer confusing and is much more clearly defined in two sentences. At the time of my play this was not the case. I have already addressed that.

I look at your statement

"Nevertheless we will change that rule after this case is closed and

we invite you to check our bonus T&C once again."

as a way of recognizing that you haven't formulated your own rule quite fairly. Perhaps you should interpret this rule differently so that winnings from wagering the bonus without breaking the rules remain unaffected and only further additional winnings after wagering the bonus for breaking the rules are retained. Also, you should change the subtleties that I've already written as arguments to versusodds. Because all my listed arguments indicate that the bonus had ended and was therefore no longer subject to any bonus rules, 10.1.6 is also irrelevant. Singular and plural play a crucial role! Otherwise rule 10.1.6 would be fallacious and should be prohibited.

Regarding your point 2:

I immediately requested a withdrawal when the bonus was wagered and only then placed the three bets.

I always issue a withdrawal immediately after a bonus has ended. If conditions are still linked to the money earned, the system reports and I as a player am then in the picture.

The saying "The bank always wins" is not without reason. We all know this is a fact, otherwise there would be no casinos.

As a player, you are all the more happy when you win something and, above all, have turned over more than €40,000 . Sticking so much to the 96€ seems to me like too expensive a farce.

That is 13333.33 spins on the slot machine at €3 each vs. 32 spins on the slot machine at €3 each. Think about these numbers. 😲

I think it's a purely "corporate political" decision that you haven't come around yet. Otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned changing the rules after this case was closed.

Why not show insight and goodwill now 😉?

I rely on Antillephone and Versusodds to look at this case objectively and, most importantly, logically.

Until then, have a good time and stay healthy.

Sehr geehrtes Artcasino und Matej,

hoffentlich ist jeder von Ihnen gut ins neue Jahr gekommen.

Vielen Dank an beide Seiten, dass dieser Fall intensiv und objektiv diskutiert wird. Das geht auch an Sie, Artcasino, dass Sie weiterhin an den Gesprächen teilnehmen. Dies spricht definitiv für Sie.

Ich denke, dass das CasinoGuru Ihr Casino als Fair betrachtet hat, da im Grunde Sie die gleichen Regeln anwenden wie die meisten Casinos. Als langjähriger Spieler kann ich bestätigen, dass Sie dem Standard der Regeln entsprechen.

Es geht lediglich um die diskutierte Regel 10.1.6. Dabei geht es um die Logik der Regel in meinem Fall.

Matej hat dies schon mehrfach betont und ausgeführt. Auch ich sagte schon ganz am Anfang (27.11.2022!), dass ich die Regel nachvollziehen kann, wenn sich mein Gewinn vermehrt hätte und das Casino den zusätzlichen Gewinn nicht auszahlen würde. Zwar wäre diese Art der Regeldurchführung noch immer nicht spielerfreundlich und fair, aber nachvollziehbar.

Anscheinend haben Sie schon Änderungen an der Regel durchgeführt, da diese nicht mehr verwirrend und viel klarer in zwei Sätzen definiert wird. Zum Zeitpunkt meines Spielens war dies nicht der Fall. Auch das hatte ich schon angesprochen.

Ich betrachte Ihre Aussage

"Nevertheless we will change that rule after this case is closed and

we invite you to check our bonus T&C once again."

als eine Art der Einsicht, dass Sie Ihre eigene Regel nicht ganz fair formuliert haben. Vielleicht sollten Sie diese Regel anders Auslegen, sodass die Gewinne aus dem Umsetzen des Bonus ohne Regelverstoß unberührt bleibt und nur weitere zusätzliche Gewinne nach dem Umsetzen des Bonus bei Regelverstoß einbehalten werden. Ebenso sollten Sie die Feinheiten ändern, die ich als Argumente schon an Versusodds geschrieben hatte. Denn alle meine aufgeführten Argumente sprechen dafür, dass der Bonus beendet war und somit keiner Bonusregel mehr unterliegen, da spielt auch 10.1.6 keine Rolle. Singular und Plural spielen eine entscheidende Rolle! Anderenfalls wäre die Regel 10.1.6 trügerisch und somit sollte diese verboten werden.

Zu Ihrem Punkt 2:

Ich habe umgehend eine Auszahlung beantragt, als der Bonus umgesetzt wurde und erst danach die drei Wetten getätigt.

Ich stelle immer sofort eine Auszahlung nach dem Beenden eines Bonus. Falls noch Bedingungen am erspielten Geld verknüpft sind, meldet sich das System und ich als Spieler bin dann im Bilde.

Der Spruch "Die Bank gewinnt immer" besteht nicht ohne Grund. Wir alle wissen, dass dies Fakt ist, anderenfalls würde es keine Casinos geben.

Als Spieler freut man sich umso mehr, wenn man was gewinnt und vor allem über 40000€ umgesetzt hat. Hierbei so sehr an den 96€ festzuhalten scheint mir wie eine zu teure Farce .

Das sind 13333,33 Drehungen am Spielautomat zu á 3€ vs. 32 Drehungen am Spielautomat zu á 3€. Lassen Sie sich mal diese Zahlen durch den Kopf gehen. 😲

Ich denke, dass es eine rein "firmenpolitische" Entscheidung ist, dass Sie noch nicht eingelenkt haben. Anderenfalls hätten Sie nicht erwähnt, die Regeln nach Abschluss dieses Falles zu ändern.

Warum nicht jetzt schon Einsicht und guten Willen zeigen 😉?

Ich verlasse mich auf Antillephone und Versusodds, diesen Fall objektiv und vor allem logisch zu betrachten.

Bis dahin noch eine gute Zeit und bleiben Sie gesund.

Dear Artcasino representative:

Could you please explain how you can penalize our casino if you have checked our bonus T&C before we went live and now when "breach" happened you step on side of player and start claiming that rule is "unfair".

This rule is OK when applied to sticky bonuses, so that's why we didn't penalize you. The person who checked the rules found it on our database of rules and saw there it was OK, but he didn't check if the casino has sticky bonuses or not.

You are willing to change the rule but not pay the winnings. So we will not penalize your terms but this complaint, yes.

From my perspective, you are just trying to find an excuse how not to pay the winnings.

Hello Matej,

"This rule is OK when applied to sticky bonuses, so that's why we didn't penalize you. The person who checked the rules found it on our database of rules and saw there it was OK, but he didn't check if the casino has sticky bonuses or not."

Comment: We have following bonus T&C (written below) which applies for first deposit bonus in this context. Could you please explain what has sticky/no sticky bonus to do with it?

"You are willing to change the rule but not pay the winnings."

Comment: We treat all players equally under bonus T&C that applied during their activity. It would be totally unfair to other players that we do not follow our own bonus T&C and do something against it.

We would be very happy if you take part of responsibility on your end for this situation.

Artcasino Team

General Bonus T&C

10.1.6 Players are not allowed to collect and/or combine bonuses. Bonus is considered as active until withdrawal request has been processed or when players balance reach zero out threshold which is set to 1 EUR or equivalent in other currency.

10.1.5 All games have a maximum betting limit of 3 EUR (or equivalent in other currencies) per game round/spin during bonus is active on the player's account. Moreover, it is strictly forbidden to use any slot special features, including "gamble feature", "buy bonus feature, "buy free spins future" and "bonus hunt" (collecting bonuses with intention to later open it) during bonus active period ("active bonus") on the player's account. With any active Bonus following games are strictly forbidden to play; Jackpot games, Table Games, Video Poker, Virtual Games (Sports and Races), Live Casino or placing bets on any Sportsbook event. Violation of this rule will forfeit the bonus and any winnings resulting from the bonus or other games that were completed during the active bonus period.

10.2 First Deposit Bonus

10.2.1 You are eligible for one first deposit bonus which shall mean no more than one of each bonuses per user, IP address, computer device, family, residential address, telephone number, credit or debit card and/or e-payment account, e-mail address, and environments where computers are shared (university, fraternity, school, public library, workplace, etc.). 

10.2.2 First Deposit Bonus is valid for all new qualifying customers of Artcasino for first deposit with bonus code ART1. Bonus code must be claimed before making deposit. Bonus comes with wagering requirement of 35x (thirtyfive times) deposit + bonus received.

10.2.3 General Bonus Terms & Conditions apply.

Dear Artcasino representative.

Do you understand that the way how you apply the rule is unfair?

How could we be responsible for what your casino is doing to players?

In a typical casino, the player takes a bonus. When wagering is complete, the bonus is transferred to real money, and that's it.

I can give you 3rd party opinion, or we can make public voting on our forum. But I am sure about the result.

I could take a bonus and complete wagering. If I do not make a withdrawal, I could be stuck for years with the bonus terms, and if I breach after ten years max bet, you will confiscate everything and return the initial deposit. How could this be fair?

If you would like to treat players this way, we will definitely put a big warning to your casino's review - because it is not fair.

Hello Matej,

Responsibility was meant for your review of our Bonus terms and Conditions which you found fair & transparent. Now when we applied violation of bonus terms you found it unfair. How possibly can we apply specific term (until withdrawal is processed) differently can be discussed. Meanwhile player did a complaint to Regulator and their decision we will strictly follow.

Dear Artcasino representative.

You can get three different opinions if you ask three lawyers to look at your terms.

Many terms end up in the so-called "grey zone", which means they are not written well but have probably never been misused. Your defence is that you are right because we said your terms are OK.

However, our website terms say that we may make mistakes from time to time.

Most important is what is written here:

https://casino.guru/fair-gambling-codex-for-casinos#max-bets

Specifically:

If software enforcement is not possible, each case should be judged separately, so that only players who have broken the rule knowingly and systematically to gain an advantage are punished.

The whole case is absurd to me because if gamblejoe52 decided to withdraw all money after he finished the wagering, you would pay him €7080. Because he gambled away the €80, you voided his completed wagering, which is entirely wrong. He basically saved you €80.

I am sorry, but it looks like you are doing everything not to pay the winnings.

Hi Matej,

We absolutely deny your statement not to pay out winnings as long as we follow our regular bonus T&C.

Dear Artcasino and Matej,

if it wasn't for €7000 I would have asked CasinoGuru to close this complaint a long time ago.

It's embarrassing for me myself to have even played this art of argumentation in your casino.

Let me guess, if the regulator decides against my favour, I probably still have to wager my deposit 5 times according to their T&C 10.6.

I would like to be brief, because Matje and I have already expressed a number of arguments against the rule. These arguments were not unreasonable and, importantly, many details on your website contradict rule 10.1.6.

If you are so fair, transparent and, above all, actually willing to pay out winnings, these questions should not pose any problems.

I would like to verify your authenticity. Because I think both Matej and I were consistently fair, transparent and above all authentic.

Here are very simple questions that can be answered with yes or no.

1. Is rule 10.1.6 fairly worded?
2. Is rule 10.1.6 clear and understandable?
3. Does Rule 10.1.6 have proven loopholes?
4. Is Rule 10.1.6 immediately identified when clicking "Promotions"?
5. Is rule 10.1.6 mentioned after a withdrawal request?
6. Is rule 10.1.6 mentioned during a withdrawal request?
7. Is the rule explained in more detail under FAQ? After all, this is a special rule.
8. Does a player benefit from rule 10.1.6 after losing part of his winnings?
9. Does rule 10.1.6 play a crucial role in the bonus implementation?
10. Does rule 10.1.6 make sense if winnings generated by wagering the bonus have already been approved for withdrawal?*

* Player X pays out the maximum possible weekly amount. He has to wait a week for the next opportunity. During this time, he decides to play again with the winnings from the bonus. In doing so, he violates rule 10.1.6 with the max bet and even loses money from his winnings.

If I thought about it further, I would certainly come up with more illogical things that make rule 10.1.6 meaningless.

What disappoints me the most is the fact that you come out and claim you are fair and have the best interests of the player at heart, yet at the end of the day you don't even feel ready to compromise. Likewise, you claim to adjust the rule and make it fairer, and the next moment you insist on the rule again.

MematoGroup: "Harnessing over 20 years' experience working at the heart of the online gaming industry [...]"

With over 20 years of experience one would expect more professionalism.

Sehr geehrtes Artcasino und Matej,

wenn es nicht um 7000€ gehen würde, hätte ich CasinoGuru schon längst darum gebeten, diese Beschwerde zu schließen.

Es ist mir selber schon peinlich, überhaupt in Ihrem Casino diesen Argumentationskünsten gespielt zu haben.

Lassen Sie mich raten, falls die Aufsichtsbehörde gegen meine Gunst entscheidet, muss ich wahrscheinlich noch nach ihren AGBs 10.6 meine Einzahlung 5 mal umsetzen.

Ich möchte mich kurz fassen, denn Matje und ich haben schon etliche Argumente gegen die Regel geäußert. Diese Argumente waren nicht abwegig und vor allem widersprechen viele Einzelheiten auf Ihrer Website der Regel 10.1.6.

Wenn Sie doch so fair, transparent und vor allem eigentlich gewillt sind, Gewinne auszuzahlen, sollten diese Fragen keine Probleme darstellen.

Ich würde gerne Ihre Authentizität prüfen. Denn ich finde, sowohl Matej als auch ich, waren durchgehend fair, transparent und vor allem authentisch.

Hier ganz einfache Fragen, die mit Ja oder Nein zu beantworten sind.

1. Ist die Regel 10.1.6 fair formuliert?
2. Ist die Regel 10.1.6 klar und verständlich?
3. Hat die Regel 10.1.6 nachweisliche Schlupflöcher?
4. Wird die Regel 10.1.6 beim Klicken "Promotionen" sofort kenntlich gemacht?
5. Wird die Regel 10.1.6 nach einer Auszahlungsanfrage erwähnt?
6. Wird die Regel 10.1.6 während einer Auszahlungsanfrage erwähnt?
7. Wird die Regel unter FAQ genauer erläutert? Immerhin ist dies eine besondere Regel.
8. Profitiert ein Spieler von der Regel 10.1.6, nachdem er seine Gewinne zum Teil verloren hat?
9. Spielt die Regel 10.1.6 eine entscheidende Rolle bei der Umsetzung des Bonus?
10. Macht die Regel 10.1.6 Sinn, wenn schon Gewinne zur Auszahlung, die durch die Umsetzung des Bonus erzielt wurden, genehmigt wurden?*

* Spieler X zahlt den max. möglichen Wochenbetrag aus. Er muss eine Woche auf die nächste Möglichkeit warten. In dieser Zeit entschließt er sich, nochmal mit den Gewinnen des Bonus zu spielen. Dabei verletzt er die Regel 10.1.6 mit der max. Bet und verliert dabei sogar Geld von seinen Gewinnen.

Bei weiterem Nachdenken würden mir mit Sicherheit noch mehr unlogische Dinge einfallen, sodass die Regel 10.1.6 keinen Sinn macht.

Am meisten enttäuscht mich die Tatsache, dass Sie sich hinstellen und behaupten sie seien fair und das Wohl des Spieler liegt Ihnen am Herzen, doch am Ende des Tages fühlen Sie sich nicht mal bereit, einen Kompromiss zu finden. Ebenso behaupten Sie, die Regel anzupassen und fairer zu gestalten und im nächsten Moment beharren Sie erneut auf die Regel.

MematoGroup: "Harnessing over 20 years’ experience working at the heart of the online gaming industry [...]"

Bei über 20 Jahren Erfahrung würde man mehr Professionalität erwarten.

In any case, Artcasino proves that it is not an attractive crypto casino by delaying the payout or intentionally passive action towards the licensing authority. (Purely speculative on my part!)

If my "offence" is so clear, why hasn't Versus Odds (last contact 01/04/2023 ) or the Licensing Authority (complaint filed 11/28/2022 ) come forward yet?

I've read some complaints here at Casino Guru (about other casinos) where the licensing authority reacted much quicker.

By the way:

Value €ETH on the day of my payout: 1150€ = about 6.09ETH would be the 7000€.

Value €ETH at the moment: 1480€ = 4.73ETH are the 7000€.

Basically, I lost about 1.3ETH in the period. This corresponds to 1924€.

My current balance, which results from the deposit, has also lost value.

Deposit value 0.5ETH = current value 0.39ETH. This is because your casino processes the deposit in € but does not hold ETH.

Please do not indicate that you care about your player and are willing to cash out "regular" winnings as soon as possible. You still haven't tried to find a compromise. The first step could have been that you pay me back my deposit, instead it has been in my account on your website for over two months now.

Please do not advertise "The Best Online Crypto Casino" otherwise my first withdrawals should have been instant. This gives the blockchain and they advertise with it. Basically when it comes to withdrawal you have to withdraw less as it is less ETH.

Clever strategy (purely speculative)!

Artcasino beweist auf jeden Fall mit dem Hinauszögern der Auszahlung oder absichtliches passives Handeln gegenüber der Lizensbehörde kein attraktives Kryptocasino zu sein. (Rein spekulativ meinerseits!)

Wenn mein "Vergehen" so eindeutig ist, warum hat sich Versus Odds (letzter Kontakt 04.01.2023) oder die Lizenzbehörde (Beschwerde wurde am 28.11.2022 eingereicht) noch immer nicht gemeldet?

Ich habe mittlerweile einige Beschwerden hier bei Casino Guru gelesen (über andere Casinos), bei denen die Lizenzbehörde wesentlich schneller reagiert hatte.

Nur mal so zur Info:

Wert €ETH am Tag meiner Auszahlung: 1150€ = etwa 6.09ETH wären die 7000€.

Wert €ETH im Moment: 1480€ = 4,73ETH sind die 7000€.

Im Grunde habe ich in dem Zeitraum etwa 1.3ETH verloren. Dies entspricht 1924€.

Auch meine aktuelles Guthaben, das aus der Einzahlung hervorgeht, hat an Wert verloren.

Wert Einzahlung 0.5ETH = Wert aktuell 0.39ETH. Dies liegt daran, dass Ihr Casino die Einzahlung in € verarbeitet aber nicht ETH hält.

Bitte geben Sie nicht an, dass Ihnen was an Ihren Spieler liegt und Sie gewillt sind "reguläre" Gewinne schnellstmöglich auszuzahlen. Nach wie vor haben Sie nicht versucht einen Kompromiss zu finden. Der erste Schritt hätte ja sein können, dass Sie meine Einzahlung mir wieder auszahlen, stattdessen liegt es nun über zwei Monate in meinem Account auf Ihrer Website.

Bitte werben Sie nicht "The Best Online Crypto Casino" zu sein, denn anderenfalls hätten meine ersten Auszahlungen sofort ausgeführt werden müssen. Dies gibt die Blockchain her und sie werben damit. Im Grunde, falls es zur Auszahlung kommt, müssen Sie weniger auszahlen, da es weniger ETH sind.

Clevere Strategie (rein spekulativ)!

Dear Artcasino representative,

In this case, it looks like your only argument is that: "we have it written in the terms".

I am expecting some logic behind this rule. Please explain to us why you have this rule in your terms.

Why does this rule need to be followed until the withdrawal, and which unfair advantage does gamblejoe52 gained that you voided his winnings?

Imagine that you are withdrawing your life savings from the bank, and the person in the bank behind the counter suddenly tells you that the bank now owns your life savings because they have a rule that if you come to withdraw the money on Friday, the withdrawal will be forfeited to the bank.

That is how I see the case, and I believe not only me.

So please use better arguments and explain the situation about the rule and why you have it.

We would like to ask the Casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’ which may negatively affect its rating.

Hi there,

Please note Player did a complaint to our gaming regulator which will take decision. At this position we cant do much more. Once we received their answer we will accordingly. Moreover we had a discussion with Matej where I have exposed reasons why such rules stands here and logic behind it.

Artcasino Team

I already explained the situation to gamblejoe52.

In this situation, I am closing the complaint as unresolved with a status: waiting for the regulator's decision.

Gamblejoe52 or casino representative, when you receive the regulator's decision, please reopen the complaint.

We’ve reopened this complaint at the request of Artcasino casino. We would like to allow this case one more chance to be resolved and help both parties involved to reach a satisfactory conclusion.

Hello gamblejoe52,

I received a message that your winning is ready to withdraw.

Could you please confirm it?

Hello Matej,

I also sent you an email earlier.

Yes, the first payment has been made. I now have to wait until I can request the next payout (next week), since according to the terms and conditions only €2,500 per week is possible.

I've been waiting for more than three months now, so I'll have to be patient for a few more weeks.

be kindly informed, as per our General Terms and Conditions, in case of big winnings maximum withdrawal of such winnings may not be greater than €2,500 per week.

We have now approved a withdrawal request of €2,500. The surplus of winnings have been put on your gaming balance since you will be eligible for more withdrawals again next week.

Kind regards,

Artcasino Security

Many thanks to you and your team, so that it was actually possible to pay out. Likewise to the casino operator, who ultimately decided in favor of the player.

Hallo Matej,

ich hatte dir vorhin auch eine Mail geschrieben.

Ja, die erste Auszahlung wurde durchgeführt. Ich habe nun zu warten, bis ich die nächste Auszahlung (nächste Woche) beantragen kann, da laut den AGBs ja nur 2.500€ pro Woche möglich sind.

Jetzt habe ich schon über drei Monate gewartet, da muss ich mich wohl noch ein paar Wochen mehr gedulden.

be kindly informed, as per our General Terms and Conditions, in case of big winnings maximum withdrawal of such winnings may not be greater than 2.500€ per week.

We have now approved withdrawal request of 2.500€. The surplus of winnings have been put on your gaming balance since you will be eligible for more withdrawals again next week.

Kind Regards,

Artcasino Security 

Vielen Dank an dich und dein Team, sodass es tatsächlich zu einer Auszahlung kommen konnte. Ebenso an den Casinobetreiber, der schlussendlich doch für den Spieler entschieden hat.

Dear gamblejoe52,

We are extending the timer by 7 days. Please, be aware that in case you fail to respond in the given time frame or don’t require any further assistance, we will reject the complaint.

I am closing this complaint as resolved because I assume the payments were made, as the player stated in his last message.