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Unfair RTP complaints

πριν από 1 έτος από Anonymized416
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silver
Anonymized416
Τζούνιορ Μαθητευόμενος
πριν από 1 έτος

Hi there, has anyone had any luck pursuing complaints against online casinos or slot providers around unfair RTP. I recently received my betting history from betandplay casino and calculated my RTP for one of the slots I was playing. Pretty much all $10 spins. On each session I played the game this is the RTP: wagered:$4346, won:$2146 = 49%. Wagered:$45,529, won: $33425 = 73%. Wagered:$882, won:$241 = 27%. Wagered:$245, won:$41.6 = 17%. Wagered:$26291, won $17,857 = 68%. Wagered: $4652, won:$724 = 16%. How is this even legal? Especially the last one. It feels like something is different rigged.

silver
Anonymized416
Anonymized416
Τζούνιορ Μαθητευόμενος
Anonymized416
πριν από 1 έτος

Wazdan website states the RTP is 96.14. Even if I total it all RTP is 66%.

admin
Radka
Anonymized416
Social Media & Community Specialist
Anonymized416
πριν από 1 έτος

Hello there! I fear the calculation is not that simple. To get the proper RTP you need to reverse-engineer the slot. This is why it is so damn hard to prove such a thing.

Besides:

"EXAMPLE

If a game RTP is 96%, it means that if you start with $1,000,000,000 and then play 1,000,000,000 rounds at $1 each, then you should end up with approximately $960,000,000 dollars."

Volatility of slots

Volatility of a slot game can’t be expressed as a single number, as you can win thousands of different win amounts as a result of the many different winning combinations. I have found out that the most accurate way to present slot volatility is a chart like this:

file

(https://casino.guru/how-slot-machines-work-math#slots-rtp-volatility-variance)

Thus, games and their creators need to be licensed to provide a guarantee of "honest" products.

You can always ask the game provider to check out your gaming history. I would bet you won't get a reply. Many players are convinced their bad luck is something more sinister and want to get an explanation. 🙁

If you decide to try, let me know how it goes, please.


silver
Anonymized416
Τζούνιορ Μαθητευόμενος
πριν από 1 έτος

I understand all that but to spend thousands of dollars and only get minimum wins occasionally doesn’t seem right to me. That’s not bad luck. As a player bad luck would be a mix of wins and losses, like I’ve normally experienced. I don’t accept to spin 6665 times on a $10bet size and have 6340 of those spins have a pay off sum less than $10 and 5191 of them with a payoff sum of 0. For 1469 spins in a row, the max won was $10, on a $10 bet. 1380 of them paid $0. $4196 was spent for a return of $391 in this example. It’s disgusting.

admin
Jaro
Anonymized416
Forum and Reviews Administrator
Anonymized416
πριν από 1 έτος

I'm sure it's unpleasant, but that's the way it is in casinos. It's interesting what kind of statistics you made, but I think Radka described it aptly, and she also shared a guide that shows how it works. 

Anyway, will you try with the game provider even though the answer is not guaranteed ? If they did reply, we'd know more and have an answer from the relevant people. What do you think ?  

silver
Anonymized416
Τζούνιορ Μαθητευόμενος
πριν από 1 έτος

Interesting how that’s a standard response. "That’s the way it is in casinos". Really? It’s just a legal way to steal peoples money. In no other industry in the world would businesses get away with taking peoples money like this. There’s no transparency. No one actually auditing the casinos. Yet if w player wins the casino is allowed to take months to decide if they’ll pay. They can stall at any moment. This is about as close as you get to support to resolve an issue.


yes, I will be going to the provider however whatever the outcome is I won’t be sharing it on here.

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admin
Radka
Anonymized416
Social Media & Community Specialist
Anonymized416
πριν από 1 έτος

"Yes, I will be going to the provider however whatever the outcome is I won’t be sharing it on here."

Why so? Wouldn't you help other players avoid your disappointment at least?

Yet you keep failing to provide the game's RTP, volatility, and other aspects. I was hoping you would understand that your statistics are not sufficient to auto-reverse the game.

And yes, it works like this. Game providers acquire licenses for their products, casinos acquire licenses for their services - there are authorities who issue and maintain the licenses. That is all.

No unbiased, solely out-of-gambling authority was established to check games RTPs worldwide.

Once the game provider is licensed and the casino is licensed it is the highest level of "audit". I'm sorry.

Honestly, I would prefer that but I can't imagine how could work in reality. 🙁

I wish you best of luck!


silver
Anonymized416
Τζούνιορ Μαθητευόμενος
πριν από 1 έτος

To help others avoid my disappointment? You write as though you're protecting people from decent, honest, transparent industry, when you know full well they’re not, like deep down you know they’re not. Hence why your site even exists. It’s all smoke and mirrors to create an illusion that it’s legitimate. who pays casino guru?


how can I provide it? Firstly I wouldn’t know when the provider gives the casino the option to change the volatility. Secondly whatever I provide you’ll find an article to respond with, accompanied by a patronising, passive aggressive message.




expert
Anonymized417
Anonymized416
Προχωρημένος Ειδικός
Anonymized416
πριν από 1 έτος

Your right it's DISGUSTING!! It's not always the casino that's CORRUPT it's the game providers. I believe they can control the volatility and RTP you are given, especially after you have had a win. I tested pragmatic and spin n go slots and after an initial win after that it's S**T!!

silver
Anonymized416
Τζούνιορ Μαθητευόμενος
πριν από 1 έτος

Yeah totally agree. I believe they’re all as bad as each other there’s so much corruption in this industry between governments, providers and online casinos. None of them do anything to protect the customer!! It’s so easy for them to turn around and say it’s bad luck when it’s highly likely it the slots have been set in some way. Wazdan specifically state that the casino has the option to change the volatility of the game I was playing, and yet as a player you have no visibility of what that is at the casino but I’m the one who’s not disclosing RTP and volatility. It blows my f’ing mind!!! It absolutely amazes me that any other industry in the world that deals with peoples money are so highly regulated! The contradictions are rife. People lose their lives to this sh*t and no one does anything about it. And if you do win, you have to fight, tooth and nail to get it out, the player is at a disadvantage right from the get go.

expert
Anonymized417
Anonymized416
Προχωρημένος Ειδικός
Anonymized416
πριν από 1 έτος

As difficult as it sounds when you are a regular player, me 7yrs total loss £20,000 I reckon., it's time to quit if your not enjoying it. I have changed. my gambling habit, never deposit more than £50 I play one particular slot and since that strategy I ahead only small amount but that way it stays as primary entertainment rather than chasing big wins. Pragmatic and Play n Go are definitely CORRUPT games providers and I have played at plenty of corrupt casinos before playing the one I do now that treats me fair

silver
Anonymized416
Τζούνιορ Μαθητευόμενος
πριν από 1 έτος

Totally agree. After this last experience I’ve had. I won’t be playing at any online casino again, at least not in the short term. They’re all corrupt I don’t care what anyone says.

expert
Anonymized417
Anonymized416
Προχωρημένος Ειδικός
Anonymized416
πριν από 1 έτος

Got to agree the RTPs just don't add up on most slots I have played. Give it a rest for 3mths break the habit and find something useful to do with the money rather than give it to CORRUPT casinos and games providers

expert
SunsetGaze
Ειδικός
Anonymized416
πριν από 1 έτος

Hi there, has anyone had any luck pursuing complaints against online casinos or slot providers around unfair RTP. I recently received my betting history from betandplay casino and calculated my RTP for one of the slots I was playing. Pretty much all $10 spins. On each session I played the game this is the RTP: wagered:$4346, won:$2146 = 49%. Wagered:$45,529, won: $33425 = 73%. Wagered:$882, won:$241 = 27%. Wagered:$245, won:$41.6 = 17%. Wagered:$26291, won $17,857 = 68%. Wagered: $4652, won:$724 = 16%. How is this even legal? Especially the last one. It feels like something is different rigged.

πριν από 1 έτος

The more you play, the closer you will get to the intended RTP I guess, you can notice a pattern in your own betting: the more you played, the more you got returned. Slots suck, this is a reality, I don't know why they are so popular, I suppose people just like burning money in exchange for a remote chance of winning big (this never happens 😂), people willingly play extremely volatile, low RTP, laughable hit frequency games and still ask why they lost their entire balance in 500 spins.

In my opinion, slots are only meant to be played with a bonus, sticky if possible or with reasonable WR below the industry standard with no dumb rules neither (like the casinos that forbid slot bonus hunts or bonus buys)

silver
Anonymized416
Τζούνιορ Μαθητευόμενος
πριν από 1 έτος

Yup agree with both. Stupid for thinking otherwise.

expert
SunsetGaze
Ειδικός
Anonymized417
πριν από 1 έτος

As difficult as it sounds when you are a regular player, me 7yrs total loss £20,000 I reckon., it's time to quit if your not enjoying it. I have changed. my gambling habit, never deposit more than £50 I play one particular slot and since that strategy I ahead only small amount but that way it stays as primary entertainment rather than chasing big wins. Pragmatic and Play n Go are definitely CORRUPT games providers and I have played at plenty of corrupt casinos before playing the one I do now that treats me fair

πριν από 1 έτος

Pragmatic got an offensive hit frequency, triggering bonuses is not that easy and their bonuses are the ones that flop the most, maybe I didn't play enough but that's what every single one of their games made me feel, with no intention of coming back to them.

My problem with Play n Go is a bit different, some of their games trigger the bonus quite easily (Wild north, Golden Colts, Derby wheel) and while their bonuses might lack potential, flaw is compensated with the easy bonus triggering. And also some of their games got extra features besides free spins to boost the base game hits, what I hate is how slow their games feel, not even the fast spin helps and the 100 auto spins limit also bothers me, I prefer ridiculous and barely watchable fast spins like Hacksaw's turbo spins 😂

expert
Anonymized417
SunsetGaze
Προχωρημένος Ειδικός
SunsetGaze
πριν από 1 έτος

Because I'm retired and don't own a tv I like to test slots on Demo and found with both pragmatic and Play n Go the more you play a slot the worse it becomes from your initial play you get loads of scatters and big bonuses with extra spins, then it goes downhill and you then always lose and if you do not a bonus spins they are always lousy and you end up losing your deposit. What I've also found with some slots if your not up on your first 100 spins give up it will just get worse. This is where I question the whole RTP thing. In my experience I would say that emmamac's experience would be similar to mine in terms of RTP and I don't think they are tested by some licencing authorities over one million spins to test it, I think they just come on the market and you take your chance. I also played Hacksaw games Temple of Torment on the RA bonus buy €1 =$200 x 10 spins you can win big I did on demo but when I played for real 3x lousy 😫 nowhere near getting my stake back. I stick to one slot Netents Finn and the swirly spin. I play $1 spins deposit $50 and hope to win $200/$300. The game play is unique and it's the slot I like to play for fun and with a chance of a win

expert
SunsetGaze
Anonymized417
Ειδικός
Anonymized417
πριν από 1 έτος

Some providers do get tested by third parties, of course only the ones tested by european regulators could be considered trustworthy. And your experience with these games is the exact same for most users: the vast majority of players are on the losing end, be it with 100 spins, 1000 spins or 10k. I personally leave a slot when it triggers the bonus and that tends to take 200 spins, in some cases I have gone 700 spins without bonus on Play and Go with games I played for the first time, with 100 spins you don't really get the complete image of a game, but can definitely see if the game is worth playing for more spins or not

expert
Anonymized417
SunsetGaze
Προχωρημένος Ειδικός
SunsetGaze
πριν από 1 έτος

There is a reason there are thousands of online casinos and that's because they are cheap to run and all have to pay office rental space,staff and the owner wages and a profit. Casinos always win in the long term if you are a player and that is FACT. I have now worked out a strategy where I can play for long periods of time be entertained win a bit lose a bit and not worry about big loses every month. Happy gambling people.😁😉

admin
Radka
Social Media & Community Specialist
Anonymized416
πριν από 1 έτος

To help others avoid my disappointment? You write as though you're protecting people from decent, honest, transparent industry, when you know full well they’re not, like deep down you know they’re not. Hence why your site even exists. It’s all smoke and mirrors to create an illusion that it’s legitimate. who pays casino guru?


how can I provide it? Firstly I wouldn’t know when the provider gives the casino the option to change the volatility. Secondly whatever I provide you’ll find an article to respond with, accompanied by a patronising, passive aggressive message.




πριν από 1 έτος

And now you know how it works. If I were you I would at least try to be more familiar with the subject. I understand you feel trapped, but consider this:

We can't fight for something we can't prove. It is as simple as that. Aside from that, we can't act on your behalf when it comes to dealing with the game provider. So, what do you expect us to do?

I'm not the enemy here your passion is 🙂; I wish you a great deal of luck and humbly ask you to share your progress in order to help other players. Don't conclude anything I have never said, please.

If you don't believe the chances are fair, stop playing.

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